I have the VR blues

Anyone else out there just hit VR1 and realize the immense size of the challenge in front of them? To get to VR10 requires you to essentially repeat the 1-50 grind 2 more times. That is nuts. I honestly don't know if I'll stick with this game because of this ridiculous grind. If anyone has any great activities that yield lots of vet points quickly, please let me know.

Yup I canceled my automatic sub yesterday still have 5 days lefts I'm hoping I get that desire to play I had the first 3 weeks. I'm V6 so im like half way there but it's still a long way ahead. I actually enjoy grinds but this is a quest grind and I find that dull and tedious. The main turn off from the game I'm hitting right now is I have no goal to hit v10 I think thats what ESO is missing atm theres just no real big reason to hit v10. You don't get any stronger than you were at v1 except you can wear some better gear but even thats only so effective cause you can get the best gear in the game but that doesn't matter if your already soft capped.

I wish I was as hyped about craglorn like everyone else is, but to me it just seems like another quest grind and some harder dungeons. You can probably hit v12 within that week of it's release then what? lol

You can go grind spindleclutch but you need a pretty pro group to do that effectively or else you'll just wipe alot and waste alot of time. If you have a good higher level group of all vr3-4+ you can get like 100k VP/hr.

I'm wrestling with this as well. I hit VR1 and was kinda bummed that I have to essentially redo all the work I thought I had just completed. I definitely thought it would have given a greater sense of accomplishment.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Sadly, the main reason I am playing this game is AvA, and if you are not VR10 in AvA, you are a small speed bump for those opponents who are. I guess I am just spoiled on pvp from GW2. Anet at least had it right. They understood that pvpers are fundamentally different from pve'ers in that pvpers enjoy fair, skill-based fights and are less interested in grinding gear. That being said, it is rather disappointing that ZO would create this huge barrier to entry for AvA in the form of VR. I'm going to stick it out for a while. I figure I can always go back to fearing guys off cliffs in WvW if I get sick of this. 

just hit VR1 myself a couple of days ago.  Decided to park my character and develop my alts to experience the other two areas at an easier pace.

I'll do the VR content once a couple of my friends/coworkers get there so we can do them as a group.  We did that through the 20's and 30's and it was fun, but I needed to kill Molag Bal and they had weekend commitments...LOL.  

Well if you plan on going back to your main after you alts you'll just be doing the entire storyline again.

I really want to try out a sorc even got as far as creating one then I think of doing all those mindless quests and I cringe and log off lol

Also if you make alts in a different faction and you decide to go back to your alt for VR leveling you'll just be doing those quest you just did on your alt which will make it even more brutal lol

I'm so scared. I'm really enjoying the game and now I hear this over and over again, about how the VR levels turn people away. I'm already having a hard time with the dungeons. I love the atmosphere of the trinity running a dungeon, getting rare droops etc and the dungeon system in TESO just seems pointless other than the quest xp the first time you run it.

I'd say the Vet dungeons is the only appealing thing about the VR zones, they actually kind of challenge you at least some of them. The loot you find in a dungeon? Well I can say I sure have never found anything that I really kept around for long. Feels items and money have little value I spent a week selling glyphs and made over 1mil and then I was like hmm that was a nice break from leveling but what do I even do with this money? lol

I think I'm going to take another day off from eso or maybe just make my alt, but I can't play casual I find it too boring and I'm pretty sure I'll hit this rut once I get that alt into the VR zones as well. Also not being v10 and missing out on that early craglorn experience could make a difference. There might be some new content in it that gives the early players an advantage, like I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have made this money selling glyphs if I leveled it slowly.

I am having fun!! I am enjoying the game. Got VR a few days ago and progressing quite nicely. Games like UO had a long grind, same with DAoC. I feel spoiled with all the quests and dungeon runs available to me in this game. Sadly people these days have no patience and want instant gratification. GW2 got boring to me because I was able to craft and get max level in like one week. I find joy in the journey and it makes accomplishing VR stuff more enjoyable knowing that I had to work for it. I hope they keep it the way it is. Otherwise getting to end game content is way to easy. Also for PvPers at level 20 I killed a VR2 by myself. 

Way back in the day I played Dark Age of Camelot. The day it launched, I created a Shaman in Midgard on one of the servers. There were few quests, you lost xp when you died, and soloing after a certain point was ... well, not difficult, but very unrewarding. You'd get a sliver of experience for killing a mob and lose 20 times that much for dying. Leveling took forever! That shaman still hasn't hit max level - he's 49.5 (cap was 50). Sure, I rolled other toons, and got them to 50, when leveling was faster, but that guy, he never made it.

So I guess I'm saying I don't mind a slower leveling process - heck, I'm used to reading people saying they are bored because they're at the level cap after a couple of days, and are looking for something to do.

I don't see the viewpoint that you're useless in AvA unless you're VR10. Sure, you are at a disadvantage, but I don't think losing out is a foregone conclusion. Plus, if there's anything Gaiscioch has, it's numbers to counteract the VR10s!

I'm enjoying the journey. When I get to the end, I'll be pleased, but I've decided I'm not going to agonize over the pace at which I travel. I'm finding plenty to do on the way there.

All my characters are level 7 (not VR). lol :)  Maybe in a few months I can reach 10, and see what AVA is about.

For me personally it's not the grind that kills it for me I actually welcome it getting max level should be a challenge. My main concern revolved around there not being anything there for me or any real benefit to v10 other than being a powerhouse in AvA.

Like in WoW and just about most MMO's you hit max level and then you did dungeons and kept doing them until you found that rare piece of gear you wanted. But since they made the crafting so great (a double edged sword) well there isn't much point of farming any gear now.

I really hope they implement actual daedric items as rare drops.  Dawnblade, ebony blade, ring of the Khajit, etc.   I was really hoping Craglorn would have this sort of thing but so far they haven't said anything.  

I can accept a certain amount of level grinding. It is a p2p game after all. They have to make you spend a fair amount of time getting to max level for no other reason than to get a few more bucks out of you. It is more the way they make you grind it out that annoys me. I have zero interest in EVER rolling an alt right now. It is going to take me 4 months to get a single VR10 at this pace. No way will I do that again. I was hoping to spend most of my time in AvA but even though you can level pretty fast doing Cyrodil dailies, you still have to grind out VR1-10 doing quests because you'll never get there doing pvp. 

If people come out and say the Craglorn content sucks that may be the final straw for me. Hard to imagine playing this game for long with no raid content.

I got as far as VR3 in beta and only made it to VR1.5 at launch.  I think I'm just drifting away from themepark MMO's.  I wouldn't say that I didn't enjoy leveling to 50, but everything about this game just feels mediocre to me.  I reached a milestone, my initial thoughts just prior to reaching was "ooh I can't wait to finally get to this part" and was subsequently replaced with a resounding "Meh".

I remember getting this exact same feeling after 2 weeks of Star Wars TOR.  It's just "Meh"

I'm 75% into vr1 at glenumbra. So far I'm enjoying it, still trying to get as much skill point as I can get to try out several abilities. We got good team and leader for AvA and we could accomplish more and having fun.

That's why I am content with my slow leveling my friends.  My highest is just 27 at the moment.

I figure once I get to level 50 ZOS probably would have had enough time to get the VR contents more in order, like faster exp, more quests to select from, level through PvP become more viable, etc.

I can see the VR contents right now seem pretty dull for a lot of players, probably myself included.  But hopefully ZOS address it fast enough.

I also hope they add more quests to each zone so I am not forced to complete almost all quests in a zone.  This kills replay ability.  Even if they add some repeatable quest ala dailies to each zone I am fine with that.  I can do some daily quests to help me level and save some quests for future alts.

Sadly, the main reason I am playing this game is AvA, and if you are not VR10 in AvA, you are a small speed bump for those opponents who are. I guess I am just spoiled on pvp from GW2. Anet at least had it right. They understood that pvpers are fundamentally different from pve'ers in that pvpers enjoy fair, skill-based fights and are less interested in grinding gear. That being said, it is rather disappointing that ZO would create this huge barrier to entry for AvA in the form of VR. I'm going to stick it out for a while. I figure I can always go back to fearing guys off cliffs in WvW if I get sick of this.

GW2 definitely got it right with with leveling and looting in WvW.  ESO would be perfect if it had those two features.  In any game, I usually have fun doing "quests" for about 80 to 100 playtime hours.  After that if I'm not fully geared for PvP once and for all then it's a struggle to keep pushing myself through the game.

I've been struggling to play lately at VR2. It's just taking so long to get any experience with monster kills barely counting for anything. 

The game is a MMO.. playing it and progressing your toon is the objective of any MMO. Personally im just THRILLED to death that a game came out that people don't start and finish in a week ( without cheating). It is honestly hard for me to even understand people that want a new game.. want to play a mmo game.. and yet...........do not want to play the game.

 IMHO if your fed up with playing this mmo game and just want to for some reason skip the game you bought to be at the end of the game.A; put some money into paying others to level your toon for you. B; you should quit the game if it does not interest you to "play" it.

I tend to agree with Roninhood, it appears that no matter what kind of MMO is published, there will always be people not liking how it progresses. It seems that this is due to the nature of a MMO and the possibility for devs to implement new game mechanics and systems with patches and expansions. 

Would this be a single player game, one would simply tell others it is not 'his kind of game' and not buy it, but with MMO's it seems people buy the game and than not like bits and pieces of it and be of the opinion that the devs should have done it some other way... 

Keep in mind that, while MMO stands for a specific genre, there are lots of different kinds of MMO's and one could not be of your taste while another could. I for one do not see the problem with there being too many quests to gain experience with. 

Also, for people saying you almost get no XP for killing Mobs. While this may be the case, have you tried doing the solo-dungeons/worldbosses/vet dungeons etc etc. This combined with questing makes it pretty easy to level Veteran levels. And also, for a MMO that has recently been available, the things I summed up to level are a lot more things to do than in most MMO's that just got out. 

My two cents ... :)

EDIT: some typo's 

There is a more effcient way of leveling than just doing the quest.  I am just VR4 but from what I read and from talking to other V10 players there is a bettwer way than mindlessly quest.  Really you only need to do 4-5 quests in each zone.  I would explain it all out but I will post the link instead cause I have to run to work.

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/grimnixs-veteran-rank-leveling-guide-v1-v10/

I am going to try and put a VR6-10 event together friday and staurday night maybe around 7:30 Est.  The objective will be to get as many people in guild as possible that have access to the 6-10 zones, and do a scorched earth campaign and blast through each zones world bosses, anchors, solo and public dungeons.  People can go back later on their own solo and do the Caldwell Gold quests and the random skyshards.

Interesting guide, thanks for posting. I hope when I hit VR there are several willing to run these POI events. Seemed this would be a nice group event. Good luck with running the event. Would love to hear how everyone faired in experience.

I did the Cadwell Silver quests in the 50+ zones and pretty much no quests in the 50++ zones.

First thing to do upon reaching 50+ content is get a group and do all the World Bosses/Dolmens/Delves for all 5 zones, this should bump you to VR 3.  At that point any quests you do will give you 3 times the VP that they would if you were VR1.

If you have a successful group you can farm a lot of VP in AvA based on the current Live build and on PTS they have doubled the XP value of player kills (I *assume* they increased VP value also...).

They also doubled the VP of all overworld mobs in Vet Zones on PTS.

Dungeons are a fantastic way to farm VP also, Banished Cells is generally accepted to be the easiest/quickest in tier 1 and Wayrest is the easiest/quickest in tier 2.

To address another point though, the disparity between VR10 and non VR10 Vets isn't as big as you think it is.  If a V10 is kicking that much tail it's probably a combination of their level, the time they have put into getting gear and upgrading it, their build, experience, and play skill.  Of course if they are an Emperor and/or a pre-patch Vamp that will be tough too - hopefully the Vamp changes are enough to make them not faceroll.  Unfortunately while they reduced the potential Ultimate cost reduction from Vamp Stage 4 from 60% to 21%, they also added a new craftable set on the PTS that adds another 15% ultimate cost reduction so a determined Sorc can still get the Ult cost of Devouring Swarm down to 52.

I haven't played the other two realms yet, so I don't see it as doing the 1-50 all over again. To me it's a new story with new and challenging content to work through. Once I finish that I have another whole new story with new and challenging content to work through.

Now if I had to do the same Ebonheart story over again twice then I'd be a little less enthusiastic. Even then though I'd probably just play my character in a different way. Focused on healing first time through, so focus on ranged DPS this time. Tanking next time.

A good discussion with several weigh-ins that I agree with so I'll keep it short. At my current leveling rate by the time i hit the VR ranks there will probably be enough patches released that the content won't get too old for me, but that's just my experience.

For all of you that have hit VR ranks, I just hope they scale the new content so that it's still a challenge for you and not just a waltz in the park.

Like Garyc, I'm at the level 7-10 end of the spectrum. :)  That's partly because I'm running 5 toons (must..stop...playing...all...the...crafting...mules...aargh) and because for the first time in an MMO, I've decided not to conform to the social expectations of level progression. Instead, I'm wandering around the ES world in "free look" explorer mode, gazing at the scenery, reading the ingame books, talking to the NPC's, and learning to tell the various harvestable alchemy plants by sight alone. I'm trying to see how the quests fit into the story, rather than my usual strategy of just figuring out how the quest mechanics work and moving rapidly on.

I'm mostly a PvE'er - questing and crafting are my thing, but I'll join AvA (once my wood elves are unbugged or my argonian reaches level 10 - whichever happens first) because I enjoy being with this family, and because there's always room in the Gaiscioch zerg, regardless of skill or character level.

I'm enjoying the journey. This game has enough to hold my attention for a long time, and given my current playstyle, I'm unlikely to ever outpace the rate of content release.

  I played EQ for 5 years never had a issue with it taking a long time to level still don`t , I think i`m just bored of all the Themepark MMO`s that keep getting released . 

 One of the things i liked about EQ was I wasn`t the chosen one , I was none special just another farmers son  with a note from my dad introducing me to the  leader of the guild i had chosen for my character class .. Just dropped outside the city gates and had to find where my guild was . to meet the leader etc.

 There were lots of quest you could do , but  you didn`t get tons of exp for doing them, there were only a few that gave a lot of exp, most were done for faction or a rare magic item .  I didn`t get my first magic item until my toon was lvl 25 lol  unlike games today where  you do quest just to level and are flooded with magic items most useless .

 I`d rather be one  character in the game world making my own adventure then having half the game desgined around my special snowflake personal story, or being directed from quest hub to quest hub .

 Ohwell may have to look into EQ next or Camelot unchaind or Archeage maybe . To bad  i like the Elder scrolls games and like DAOC rvr , But i don`t care for personal story to much  .

I think a lot of the problem seems to be that veteran MMOer's are bored of the content that comes with MMORPGs. I started playing MMO's with Rift and I still very much enjoy the leveling process, took my time getting to 50 here and I am rather happy that I am still not even a third of the way through the content. Then again I play a lot of single player RPGs.

Honestly, many you may be happier switching to an FPS game, or something without levels and gear rather than subjecting yourselves to something that doesn't make you happy anymore. We all change and our tastes in things change.

 I played EQ for 5 years never had a issue with it taking a long time to level still don`t , I think i`m just bored of all the Themepark MMO`s that keep getting released .

I have to agree with this. I loved the fact that it took a while to get to level. That used to be a large part of grouping and mmo's was the fact that it took forever. You arranged raids at different levels. I remember doing all kinds of 40 and 50 level raids and some other guildies were higher levels helping us gather what we needed for the event. That was fun back in EQ.

 There were lots of quest you could do , but  you didn`t get tons of exp for doing them, there were only a few that gave a lot of exp, most were done for faction or a rare magic item .  I didn`t get my first magic item until my toon was lvl 25 lol  unlike games today where  you do quest just to level and are flooded with magic items most useless .

In ESO the first weapon I looted was white. The next weapon I looted was blue. That weapon I kept for 4 levels and then out leveled it with another blue weapon that dropped from a creature. Then I got a purple two-handed from a rat. A... RAT, R.A.T level 1 creature. Still have it in my inventory. In EQ "blue" level weapons meant something. They were hard to get, not the best but still very good. In todays terms "blue" is almost as easy as green used to be, but "blue" back then is where "gold" is now.

I`d rather be one  character in the game world making my own adventure then having half the game desgined around my special snowflake personal story, or being directed from quest hub to quest hub .

Yep, I agree I'd rather be a nobody and just make my own story than to be pulled along. Now random and spontaneous events are great, so long as they are rare and so vastly different that not everyone gets a chance to take part. IE dragon attacks a town and those in the area were able to thwart it. Dragon doesn't attack that town again .. ever.. maybe in a year or two, but attacks other locations in a different form and level.

Then I got a purple two-handed from a rat. A... RAT, R.A.T level 1 creature

Oh noes, I've been playing this all wrong. I stopped killing ambient creatures after I accidentally killed a pig and made the farmer cry. No wonder all my weapons are greens. xD

You can make the farmers cry by killing pigs >:)

lol i`m not bored of MMOs  i`m just bored of the way MMO`s are being made lately . the whole everyone is special aspect,  works great in a single player game but no so much in a mmo with another 20k on your server all the special chosen one ha . 

  It`s just differnt type of MMO`s appeal to differnt types of players , i`d rather have a game world and just be dropped into it . sure events, random encounters etc are all great and are a huge part of a good MMO  and  are fun ,  but i don`t need half the games content to be a special personal  story driven game exp to have fun .

 Some people like that and it`s mostly like a single player RPG where there is a storyline and you are the Hero etc and that`s cool .   but that`s not what i look for in a MMO ,  

 Personal story seems to be the latest fad  in MMO development and most likely why i havn`t liked  the new MMO`s coming out in the last few years . /sigh  ohwell  Glad most seem to be enjoying it , I`ll keep watching it and a few other games .

The OP seems to state the issue that comes up in every MMO - why keep playing? Everyone plays for different reasons but when players post that it's work, then it seems pointless to me that you should play the game. I think ESO offers lots of "end game: options for those that enjoy ESO and wish to stay in Tamriel. I actually enjoy the quests in ESO and I read the storylines. It's the journey, not the destination, I'm enjoying. When it feels like work, it's time to leave.

That being said, no MMO has a solution for players looking for some sort of end gane Nirvana. Most devs just create a gear grind through raids that absolutely turns me off. I quit Rift at 50 because it was nothing other than raiding to get gear to raid some more.  Some players love the gear grind...to each their own.

Lastly, AvA will always provide me with something to do as every time you do it, it's a new experience. ZOS will likely implement many positive changes to AvA over the next 6-12 months that will further enrich the experience.

In fairness to the OP, he didn't say anything about wanting an easy way to get to max rank.  Some of the comments accusing of him of wanting the easy way to achieve VR10 are a bit off base.

That being said, this MMO is a PvP-centric game.  If you want a good competitive PvP environment, there is no way you can have super overpowered players versus everyone else.  Once you reach lvl 50, the differences that are not based on experience, skill, or circumstance should be small or else it would discourage people from wanting to PvP.  I think the VR ranks are very similar to how Warhammer had renown ranks.  If all things were equal, you would lose to a higher ranked opponent.  But in world PvP, when are things ever equal? lol.

In fact, in just about every MMO, the differences between the best geared player and your run of the mill max level player is never really that large.  As someone else pointed out, the main difference is the amount of experience and skill developed from playing the game and class far longer than the average person.  Even in PvE centric MMO's that sometimes require your gear to be of a certain level in order to complete certain raid content, the difference is still really not that large.

I do think that we are spoiled for choice versus what we had back in the early MMO's years.  Like Charlatan, I remember those initial MMO's where you lost xp when you died and you had like a handful of quests per level which meant you spent about 90% of the time grinding mobs insteading of questing or doing dungeons lol.  But I'm not so sure I would have stuck to those MMO's if I had as many choices as we do now.  I think it's a good thing that we can be a little impatient and demanding of the modern MMO.  That means that we have so many choices that we can look around until we find one that we feel is worth our investment of time and money.

As far as this game in general, I think the leveling process is great fun.  I also think the PvP in this game is on par with some of the best PvP MMO's out there.  I do think that the dungeons are a little underwhelming but I think that has more to do with the nature of how flexible the classes are.  But that's a whole different discussion lol. 

I know my way of playing MMOs has changed over the last 14 years.  I like both PvE and PvP; however, as of the last couple years I find I have trouble keeping up in WvW and AvA.  Mostly due to my disability and my hands tiring too fast by playing to hard and steady.  I'm definitely not a night owl to do the night runs with the family though I would love it if my body didn't have other ideas.  

So I'm back to wanting games with LOTS of PvE.  I do not find questing in ESO a grind at all.  The stories are pretty cool in my opinion and you even run into people you met before (not talking about story or guild quests where that is obviously the case).  There is a lot of great humor, tons of NPCs to love and definitely those you really love to hate.

I also like crafting in this game ,so I spend a lot of time doing that as part of my empty the bags process.  Actually a bit overloaded, but close to more bank or bag space for hanging on to all those items I plan on researching.  

Even if I got to VR2 in testing and even if I saw the starter isles and Stonefalls for EP like 15 times over with characters there is still a good portion of the game I have never seen despite toons in all alliances.  I haven't even fully explored all the classes despite months of testing.  I'm happily plugging along enjoying my journey this time around.

I'll probably hit 40 today with my play time later.  Only crafting at 50 so far is the easy peasy Provisioning.  I have plenty to do for some time to come.  For me this is the kind of game I was looking for because I leveled too many toons too easily in GW2 and the PvE wasn't there for me anymore and then I started having issues running hardcore in WvW due to my hands.  So I hopped into other MMOs for a few months here and there last year.

And don't forget Craglorn coming out soon with more grouped VR content to try out.  I might be VR by then.  LOL!

View the vet lvls as what they are.... You get to experience both of those areas which you didn't have access anymore. you get to level your main, get to experience everything, and all this without having to roll a alt. What could be better. Don't worry about the grind, play the game, and enjoy the other factions quest lines. Or, just log in long enough to do a couple dungeons/ public dungeons, do the AvA quests and log out and play something else (if you even have time to). Slow to level but level you will. So many options and no amount of words are going to change anything if someone has already decided they are done and are creating excuses to justify it.

I'm having fun with the game so far. My highest level character is just vr2 now (near 3). I'm not in any great rush to get to 10, I listen to the quests and read a lot of the books and notes. It's not as good as most single player elder scrolls games, the world lacks the detail, depth and openness and limits interaction greatly,  but it is still keeping me entertained. My biggest issues were some of the quest hangups along the way, I played around them and so a lot of the story stopped making sense to me in Coldharbour since there was no continuity of events. Most of the quests in CH I just speed clicked through because they made no sense to me at all and I wanted to get past them. Why was the fighter's guild in CH? Why was the mage's guild there? Why were there all these people I had met leveling to 40 in CH? That quest is fixed now and I went back and did it so I could see what happened but in my mind that is very poor quality control to let something that story-breaking remain in your game for weeks. 

In general, MMO quests demand a lot of imagination from the player as the world often can't support the narrative due to the games mechanical limitations. Single player games approach these narrative driven issues more effectively and one shouldn't expect too much from mmo quests. There were a few that made me laugh, some of the Morrowind homage quests like the naked nord who lost his axe.

My other complaint is that AVA is a massive AOE fest. If you haven't seen this video here is a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hyK9tLzG5o There is some inappropriate language in the music track so you might want to mute it if you have NSF ears. It reminds me of GW2's stack up and spam aoe meta game. There is so little single target action, just watching the vampire emperors spam impulse vanish in bats only to come back fully healed seconds later over and over while soloing 2 or 3 full large groups at a time is really asinine. This is the most disappointing aspect of the game to me so far. In beta I spent most of my time in AVA but the only time I spend in AVA now is for guild events. 

I plan to stick around for some time to come; and I expect players to demand some massive improvements in Cyrodiil from the current game-play. I started a few alts just to see other classes and I am sure that will keep me entertained for some time to come.

I think my problem, and I doubt I am alone in this, is that I lose patience when the "new" mmo seemingly learned nothing from all the mmos which came before it. Take for example, Rift. Rift was essentially a WoW clone, but it fixed all the little irritants that eventually drove me away. There were so many improvements that let you focus on the fun aspects of the game and removed the boring bits that it was like a breath of fresh air. Want to change your role? Click this button and you automatically respec. Want to change your appearance? There's a button for that too. 

GW2 was another great step forward, but moreso in pvp than pve. GW2 basically removed gear grinding entirely. Sure, if you want to waste (my opinion) 200 hours crafting a legendary go right ahead, but it doesn't give you an advantage so you don't feel like you are obligated. Also, if you loved wvw you could level up there quickly and easily. Sure you might need to pop into pve land every once in a while for gear or food or whatever, but the world events made that kind of a fun change of pace. If spvp is your thing, you can play immediately with zero gear disadvantage relative to spvp vets.

ESO has completely removed those options. There is no spvp or battlegrounds so I can't experiment with builds and play style. Once I figure out my favorite pvp build it is going to cost like 30,000g to make the ONE-TIME respec. So ESO basically forces you to have one build for pve and pvp. I thought that restriction was universally abandoned years ago. You can level up in cyrodil by doing daily quests, but once you hit VR, you are basically forced back into pve land if you want to hit VR10 because the veteran point rewards for killing players and taking objectives are laughable. I watch my VR bar slowly crawl forward when i am in pve. It is stuck in one place the whole time I am in Cyrodil. Want to get some new gear? Its back to pve land, cuz you sure aren't going to be finding anything worth wearing in cyrodil. 

Sorry if I sound like a whiney brat but I'm feeling rather frustrated at the moment. Like I said, I am determined to stick with it until I hit the endgame content so I'll be around a couple more months, but after that, who knows. 

I'm a bit new and get demolished in AVA all the time so I expect it at this point but do you not want caps or you do?

It seems aoe power caps would be something you want on aoe powers (maybe only really capped in AVA). Maybe not on things everyone has (siege).

But I have to admit it confuses me.

Wow... I just hit VR1. I mean just last night. All this negativity.. I haven't even finished coldharbour yet. It has taken me a month to make it here.. and to be honest I spent a good amount of time crafting and resource hunting. I figure IF I really push it I can make it to 10 in a few weeks. I have no real interest in rushing up to it like that though. I want to enjoy the content, including the AvA stuff. I wish they would fix leveling in AvA.. I would totally make a character and just AvA it to max level. That is a lot of fun to me. Tricks, Ash, and I played SW:ToR together and we had our main raiders and we had our PvP toons. We actually made it to around 40 doing very little quests. We stopped because of this game. We did mainly just story quests so we could advance the story at the right levels. We PvPed almost entirely though to level and it rocked. I could see doing dailies, and Cyrodiil quests as a valid leveling strategy. Mix in some dead AD and DC and we have a BBQ... err party.

Is there an activity you would like to see more of that we are not doing? Would more AvA keep you interested? What can we do to keep you interested and NOT feel like the game is a quest grind. To Be Honest, I am excited at seeing all the other zones and completing achievements, etc... but I have to take breaks from it myself and do other things like craft and AvA. I remember the Classic WoW quest grind. It took me MONTHS to get to 40 to get my horse... I remember how accomplished I felt and how AWESOME it was. I truly felt that way when I hit VR1. I feel this game has enough quest grind, and story, and AvA content to keep me interested. While I am definitely not the first VR, I feel that the time it has takes has been a lot of fun and I would do it again, only with AvA as a valid option to help break the grind up some more.

I hope you all stick it out and find a way to make the game exciting. I know my RL schedule is a little hectic but I would like to start doing some Dungeon Nights. My idea is basically we get some people to lead small groups into dungeons and run them. All of them. We start at the first dungeons, and do it on regular mode... and run every dungeon after until we get to the last one. Then we do them all again on Vet mode or run more people through at level... We just smoke these dungeons for ourselves, for our friends. Wednesday Night Wreckers... or Saturday Morning Storm.... Call it whatever you want... The idea is to get people together, working together, and helping others. It would be really cool to get some Higher toons, 40s to VR to run lowbies through for gear and achievements. We can run alts, mains, whatever. All this working together and learning to play with groups only helps us in AvA.

My last bit is to just say I hope to see you enjoying the game, maybe take a break for a month or two let some more people get to VR areas and you will have more options to join up and have fun with them. It is a game, and it is important to enjoy the game and the people you play it with. If you go, we will keep a cold drink, a warm fire, and open chair for you at the table.

ohwell i`m bored and  don`t start back to school till may 27 , so guess i`ll buy the game  to keep me from going out and spending 50+ a night at the bar lol . even if i quit in a month or two it`s still cheaper the one or 2 days i stay in . 

 Can you lvl up in AVA now , i read they nerfed the Kill quest to once a day , i guess they were afraid people would stay in AVA  and miss the PVE  stuff they created lol .

@Osu

I agree. I loved Rift simply because it was a such a modern cutting-edge MMO. I was amazed at the amount of simplicity and forward thinking of the devs. It has so much cool new features it is amazing. Engine was very light, and fast loading. UI was top notch and very customizable even without addons. Any MMO I played afterwards seems poorly designed in my opinion. I am not refer to content, lore or story. Simply the way the MMO system was designed and how the engine runs very nifty well. Server downtime were also very fast.

After Rift, SWTOR seem like a MMO that was 10 years behind in tech. Clunky engine and bland design. The only strengths was cut-scene based PvE. Then GW2. It is so advanced till today that other MMO should follow GW2's strengths. Fast speedy engine. Check. Unreal downtime or reboot times. Sometimes it feels just like a "PC reboot" needing only 30 minutes for a quick patch or reset. It was mindblowing! Seamless server. Good thing now they started to follow megaserver style of ESO just this April 2014. The best inventory system to date with deposit, crafting slots etc.

Now, I still love ESO. But ESO still contains certain features that make feel like a 10-year old MMO. Some features are definitely very modern like megaserver. The graphics is excellent and engine runs very efficient. Server downtime duration are decent, though it is happening too frequently right now. Definitely better than SWTOR. Addons present at launch is fantastic.

The rest of ESO's features are stuck in dark ages. Clunky UI. Terrible inventory management. I want to spend my time playing and not managing inventory every 2-3 hours. In this day and age, I don't want to be using alt as mules. Just gimme a bigger inventory space already. Why do I have to resort to mules? Restrictive character development without much freedom of easily testing different builds. There's content are interesting, but the money sink is terrible. Money sinks on purchasing bank, horse and repair only? I find it very boring. Surely they could me more creative in other types of money sinks.

Veteran rank difficulty hit me like a Mack truck. I mean, I'm all for a challenge - after all I've been playing since EQ beta - but vet enemies are just overly powerful to the point of it not being fun. Getting two shot by melee quest bosses has no skillful counter so I end up sitting around until someone else on the quest comes along to team up. Which is great - hey its an MMOG - but after 50 levels of enjoying the atmosphere and questing the scaling in veteran content is like a rocket jump to the face. I was enjoying cruising along, killing stuff, exploring the world and lore. Now I feel like my best bet is to sneak past everything and find every way possible to avoid combat. Just not fun. No fun at all.

Add to that the nightmare that is having to stop every 20 minutes to empty my bags, ESO is really grinding on my nerves now. I'm going to stick it out to see if 1.1 levels out the VR experience but I don't see myself subbing a 2nd month.

I'm starting to see a slight trend here. Unfortunatly, I haven't hit VR content yet. I hope that my little duo is enough for it. Otherwise I might have to end the sub as well and just find something else to play until SC comes out.

You and I have a very different definition of "grind." To me "grind" is the pointless, no-effect, no-story killing or dailying to get XP, and the pointless, no-effect, no-story repetition of the same "dungeon" over and over. Quest-based play, especially quests that actually affect the world around you, is exactly the opposite of grind. Meaningful PvP is exactly the opposite of grind. Then again, I've been around MMOs a long time and my definition of grind may be a bit "old-fashioned."

As for all the tangents this thread took: I can understand arguments about the difficulty curve being too steep in early VR (but that doesn't seem to be the main complaint). The money sink issue is seriously problematic, but it is the only very serious problem with this game from my point of view.

Well, even though ZO has folks who are MMO dev vets, they still made the rookie mistake of believing that "Veteran Ranks" would be a long-term solution to fill the "end-game content" conundrum, that every newly released MMO struggles with.

The problem is that most players do  not see level 50 as the beginning of settling into their end-game content, they see level 50 VR10 *AS* the end-game content and want to get there, yesterday.

Its the "entitled player" mentality that plagues MMOs.  I don't think that RPG players are like that, they actually enjoy the journey, because the end of the game is the end of the game, not the perceived "real" beginning.

Anyone in anyway that complains about not being able to be "end game" in 5 weeks or less just flabbergasts me...

Anyone in anyway that plays a mmo and then.." does not want to  quest/grind " for MONTHS and then more as new content is available...confuses me...

Anyone in anyway that can not find enough content to keep them insanely busy in this ESO MMO...... makes me feel sorry for them.

 I am loving this new game. first of its type since old school  EQ.

my personal wish list:::

1; game needs to increase all aoe skill costs.

2; game needs a addon to be able to mark a target for team play.

Nearly perfect .  Nothing more to say.

My last bit is to just say I hope to see you enjoying the game, maybe take a break for a month or two let some more people get to VR areas and you will have more options to join up and have fun with them. It is a game, and it is important to enjoy the game and the people you play it with. If you go, we will keep a cold drink, a warm fire, and open chair for you at the table.

That alone is worth giving the game a re-look in a few months time!  Nice.  :)

I've been playing since the early access and I was in 6 betas as well.  My wife and I just hit level 40. With the massive push that everyone made to get to end game VR we couldn't find anyone to really group with in the family so we went to go start characters in another alliance to play those that we actually liked.

It's been a rather enjoyable experience, we've played a few hours a night and maybe get 4 or five levels a week. Not rushing it and generally enjoying the story.

My only regret is not having a strong grouping mechanism in the game to promote group leveling. If i'm not on the same quest with you then it's not possible to play with you. Hence us moving to another alliance altogether. 

If they fixed that then maybe it'd make sense for us to go and play on EP again but at this point there isn't anything worth it for us as we go through the content. I can't do anything with the family in this game besides AvA and that just isn't my cup of tea right now. I want to max out my level at a good pace and then maybe jump into AvA. Yet if my entire play time is just with me and my wife only we will play what we enjoy unfortunately.

I have no idea why ESO wanted to be that kind of game.

@Sekkerhund - absolutely agree. This game would be MUCH more enjoyable if they had just tabled the whole concept of VR for a later rollout. I honestly would be having much more fun right now if I only had to get to level 50 to be on equal footing with everyone else in AvA. VR just kind of feels like a sad excuse for not having decent endgame content in place at launch. Its kinda like they didn't have craglorn or any raid content ready so they decided they would let us all do the 1-50 twice more to buy themselves time. Honestly, this VR grind DECREASES my interest in playing the game. I feel like I have so much time invested in my templar that I would not even consider leveling an alt. AND, because the VR content just recycles existing content from other factions, there is even less incentive to roll an alt on another faction. They really should have learned some lessons from Rift. I remember feeling none of this frustration when I was leveling my first toon.

@Roninhood - those "anyones" you mentioned are called pvpers. Pvpers, IMHO, are not particularly interested in questing, grinding gear, exploration, crafting, or immersive plots and lore. They just want to get out there and kill other players.   

Hey Hey! Don't despair! Wildstar releases in less than a month!

Unfortunately wildstar has slowly lost appeal for me and GSCH has confirmed not creating a division there. At least last I read.

 My wife and I just hit level 40. With the massive push that everyone made to get to end game VR we couldn't find anyone to really group with in the family so we went to go start characters in another alliance to play those that we actually liked.

Everyone did not push to endgame VR. One recurring theme in our guild, at least, is the diversity of playstyles. Some of the altoholics like myself are 30 levels below you at this point, because we're playing the game a little differently with a focus on the journey, not the endgame (and then there are host of other reasons, like RL commitments limiting playtime etc). If you pull up the main activity room roster ingame, there's a huge spectrum of levels - last time I looked, it was bottom-heavy rather than top-heavy. In guildchat in the very late night/early morning hours server time (Oceanic primetime), I've noticed the VR folks struggling to find groups, because the bulk of the online players are too low level to join them.

I agree that there are some serious structural limitations for PvE grouping at the moment though (in particular, the strictness of the quest stage matching mechanic) and hopefully that will be addressed soon. Most games collect data for a time after release before implementing significant design changes, so what we're seeing now is nowhere near the finished product.

I am VR now and still love the game.  I mix things up so I am not burned out from just questing.  I am enjoying the process and not really worried about the destination.  If I get tired of one character, I go adventuring on another or I set little tasks for myself such as finding all the skyshards, or run dungeons or help guild members, etc.  This works for me but may not work for you.  

Well I kind of got back into the game I figured out I what was lacking in my gameplay which was well other people. Once I found a solid non zerg VR based guild that did dungeons together I started to have alot more fun.

Dungeon farming is kind of a important thing and having people you know that are good ath their jobs is needed some of the boss drops give you great set bonuses and some of the weapons actually have double enchants on them plus a set bonus.

If your looking to have some gear by v10 I'd stop doing quests at v8 and start farming wayrest dungeon it gives 300k exp a run. The group of guys I run with can clear it in 15mins give or take so I'll be hitting v10 very soon.

Also theres a technique to mindless farm vet fungal groto as well which gives roughly 700k/hr vp  if you need something prior to v8 but you need to be able to clear the dungeon until the 3 spider boss

Sadly I am still V2. I tried the online guides and think I am doing it wrong because I cleared all POI's in stormhaven and got like 200k vp. 700 vp short that I will have to get questing i guess. I plan to dungeon farm once I hit V5. Vet dungeons are too hard below that.

I'm enjoying the game tremendously.  I'm also enjoying going through the VR zones.  I like the PvE content to a great extent.

I've just finished the DC content and have started the AD (VR6+) content and I'm looking forward to it.  It was quite fun going through the content.  It's actually allowed me to investigate my character options to a much greater extent than I thought as well.   The continuous stream of additional skill pts in going through the zones has allowed me to pretty much try most of the weapon sets.  It's also allowed me to explore different play styles without being completely focused on just repetitive end-game dungeon or AvA content.  The skill sets that I was expecting to use at high levels when I had started the character have not been the ones I've enjoyed using more recently.

I do love the AvAvA play in the game.  I've enjoyed it since level 10 regardless of the prevailing thought the you can't do anything in Cyroddil until you hit VR10.  I disagree with that notion completely.   Not everyone out in Cyrodiil is VR 10 and I've had fun 1v1, 4v4, 10v10, 40v40, and bigvbig battles.   Great stuff.  It's just not worth being fearful that a VR10 is hanging out next to every tree that you pass.  Some trees maybe, but not all of them.

As for GW2, I really didn't care for their PvP.  Although the AvA was ok, it paled in comparison to DaoC or WAR, and the battle instances in GW2 were just plain awful.  The options for play type were pretty limited in GW2 as well.  I enjoyed GW2 for a while, but I'm much happier in ESO.

I am VR 2 now. It took a bit to get there. I have finished Stros Mkai, and a lot of people are doing the PoI runs to power level. I have had fun with it, but I think I am going to quest some more and finish levels more appropriately. I find the running to specific spots to be a little lack luster. It really messes me up because I am not completing anything really. I like the more structured approach and finishing a whole area. While I will be VR2 for a while longer than the people who do PoIs in all the zones to rocket in level, I want to make sure I enjoy the experience. I enjoy the story so far and gaining levels to power through the quest content isn't fun to me. I plan on only leveling one or two more toons. I will power through with them.

I enjoy being able to experience the other two areas with my, now beloved character.  I ignore the story line for the most part, because it's a rehash, but the side quests are new to me as are the flora and fauna of each area.

Of course, questing with a buddy helps a lot.

I feel like the AvA (and game in general) need a lot more ways to prominently display your guild pride. I feel like when a player runs past you, you should be able to visually recognize whose guild they belong to. I feel when you run by a captured keep, you should be able to to instantly recognize by the banners draped over the side what guild it belongs to. In battle we should be able to recognize enemy guilds and they should in turn be able to recognize us to promote competition, reputation, and infamy.

I can't seem to get through the PvE to get to the PvP, and find myself questioning myself, "why am I doing this?" I do like grouping with friends, and that is the primary reason I play, but I feel if I am below VR8-10, then I am more of a detriment to my team aside from being able to use utility skills & siege. I may resub later down the road if ZOS can make some beneficial changes to AvA, guild pride, and the PvE grind.

For the record, I think the Cyrodil map is amazing, and love the topography, the many control points, and even the in-zone questing that (I feel) is better than the questing in most of the rest of the game. I am discouraged that AD, EP, and DC as their singular entities seem to want to avoid being on a challenging AvA map, as each factions seems to be moving to a Cyrodil map they can dominate. I realize some individual guilds are the exception to the rule, but personally, I would like to see a lot fewer Cyrodil zones, forcing the factions into a more commonly populated map. Right now, it feels like we have already hit the ceiling with anonymous keep flipping.

I just hit VR1 with my main and my alt and I am really looking forward to experiencing the veteran content coming up.  The problem I faced playing through EP is that I have found myself over leveled the whole way through.  I am a sightseer, farmer who kills everything that moves multiple times and I will hunt resources for hours on end (I have only finished 1 group dungeon) .  By the time I look up I have lost where I was in the quest line and my journal is splattered with green & grey quests.  As I was building up my alt I was closer to the right level but I had to push through the quests before anything else to stay within range.

I am sure I will hit a wall at some point and it will start to drag, but after 500+ hours in game that wall isn't visible yet.

I got the VR blues around VR2 and i still have it. 

For me personally what is killing this part of the game is the following:

- You completly lose the sense of progression. The time it takes to move one VR is huge, almost one full zone. Also you start gaining skill points alot slower, so your progression stalls and you end up using the same thing you already had for the first 50 levels.

- Story wise the VR content is completly anti-climatic. You just defeated Molag Bal, the Prince of Lies, in personal single combat. But you go back to normal day to day stuff and get your ass kicked by the most insignificant things all around.

- VR content is not more challenging, the mobs just have more HP, so they just take longer to kill. The mechanics of the game do not change, you are doing the same thing you were doing for the last 50 levels. Just instead you will do it for 100 more levels (or 10 VR).

- The whole VR content seems forced. It looked like they knew they would not have enough time to finish the end-game content so they force you thru all the factions content. 

- And finally, this is the first MMO in which i would never, ever, ever ever, even think about doing an alt.

Right now i am playing this game only to see Craglorn. If things don't change direction when we get there i will unsub.

I think it's awesome that at VR1 I get to run a huge number of quests again instead of grinding some mobs.

Running around level grinding via mob or event killing is really awful and boring.

And truthfully, at VR1, you are pretty awesome.  You may not be as awesome as VR10, but it's ok.  It's not like you can't reach VR10.

I do think it's great that I have to cruise through quests.  This is an Elder Scrolls game.  I thank them for not making me slaughter some ungodly amount of [insert creature name here] to progress.

Exploring the new worlds for the VR characters gives huge numbers of skill pts - which is nothing but useful & great.