Interesting Read on End Game in MMOs

So bored on the weekend and reading some gaming news and came across this article from massively..I've always felt that the end game chase in every MMO was bad and that the developers should have invested more in the actual leveling process instead of front loading all the efforts into the end game "carrot on a stick gear grind" that has plagued MMOs since Vanilla WoW. This articles author put a lot of my own personal feelings regarding the current state of MMOs to paper and figured I'd share it with you all.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/03/14/working-as-intended-endgame-is-the-worst-thing-that-ever-happen/

It really is interesting how the idea of "endgame" and process of leveling changed between EQ (1999) and WoW (2004). 

EQ was my first MMO experience, so there may be some bias in my thinking of how absolutely perfect the game was.  That being said, I remember taking my sweet time (just as the author said in the article) getting to level 50.  Max level wasn't even really my #1 goal, as I had so much fun simply exploring, working on my epic quest (which max level wasn't an absolute requirement to at least start), and playing the market.

WoW changed everything:  As the article mentioned, the goal of the game was max level.  Getting there often times felt like one log tutorial. 

The mentality of MMO players has evolved to a point where this sort of grind-to-max play style is almost acceptable.  My hope is that ESO can break the trend (and from what I've seen, I think it has a good shot).

Time will tell :)

@Rasgo,

Yeah I played EQ for many years. Had a Dark Elf Shadow Knight and I could remember countless nights on the sides of "The Over There" pulling and grinding mobs on the hill side and avoiding trains. MMOs were a lot different back there and the communities were a lot tighter. Something I really miss.

Yeah WoW unfortunately did change everything. It took a popular IP and made it into an easily accessible online game and then warped what I felt was the good things in the game (The Journey). Everything became about the destination and how fast you could make it to the next. Unfortunately WoW was the first MMO that really hit megalith proportions, since EQ1, UO, and DAOC were still fairly niche games. That led to a lot of people thinking WoW WAS the first MMO and that the WoW formula was just how it was. Then everyone else decided to try and cash in on some of the action and that formula perpetuated throughout the rest of MMO history.

Unfortunately I don't hink ESO really breaks too far from the mold, but it definitely does sway a bit away. I have been liking what I've seen so far, and I will hold ultimate judgement until 3-4 months after release and see how they handle their content updates and how adventure zones pan out. Cyrodill is already awesome, but also looking forward to any positive changes they bring to that experience.

EDIT: I looked at Wildstar and if you ever could call a game a WoW clone...dear god..it looks like they packaged up the WoW graphics engine and shook in some sci/fi space junk into it. IMO that game is shaping up to be WoW 2.0 and the funny thing is...it's gettin exceptional response and reviews from a community that consistently complains about that very thing....look at ESO, 90% of the publicity is negative publicity...guess it doesn't pay to try something slightly different.

I think the article's author starts off with some false premises.  The Endgame has always been with us, and is one of the common points to try and apply balancing  efforts. 

That patch change in UO where it maxed out the skills and stats one character could have, enforced an Endgame, and made it not only easier to get to, but possible for many.

Everquest has raids since early on, and introduced the first raid party UI elements that I am aware of back in Planes of Power days, linking up to 72 players across groups, in 2002.     At that time there was a strong element across many guilds, on my server anyway, that raiding and grinding AA's when not raiding, was where it was at.

Dark Age of Camelot always had an Endgame, and it was RvR.

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The banding together with near-strangers part...that they get wrong.  There are only so many players your game will have that other players will stick to socially like glue.  It is in the games best interest to get those sticky players to where the other players are, interacting in large groups, to a common purpose.   That is generally Raiding. That is what makes the epic corpse recovery in Fear fun.  Those few sticky people, interacting with others, large amounts of others, is what makes Guilds live, and die.  

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I'm sure that other Endgames can be made, or created, but they must at a minimum, give good reasons for those socially sticky people to interact regularly with others, and preferably large numbers of them at the same time.  You only need a few funny or fun people per gathering for it to stay a good time, and it is much easier to get them when you have 60, as opposed to 6.

Gearscore and Exclusion was part of a mistake.  Making the large group activities, also the difficult activities, that you can't just add more people to until you lag out or beat the mob.

This is where I think that TESO endgame is similar to EveOnline and to what I've heard DAoC was (never played), where there is no "endgame".  Yes there is VR+ PvE, Craglorn, etc (however that turns out).  The real ongoing attraction is AvA.  That will never be exactly the same and will always offer all the variety such a fluid environment can offer.   When I was playing, over four years ago (?!?), Eve was even more fluid in NullSec as it wasn't just three alliances, it could be hundreds of hostile corps, with alliance structures changing on almost a daily basis.  That with its almost impossible to train real-time cost of skills, definitely gave Eve it longevity.

like Llyren said the endgame has always been there. While the leveling experience in EQ was like no other the fact is the endgame is what kept people playing it for soo long.

As far as PvE goes no one has done endgame as well as EQ did. The first time you did Lady Vox or Lord Nagafen was epic. There was no easy mode mod telling you when to run out and what to do. Raids only got more complicated and better from there on.

As for pvp it didn't tell you where to go to find pvp like nowadays with all the instanced pvp maps that are boring. You had to go find your own pvp whether it was fighting over a rare spawn fighting for a peticular camp in lower guk or epic guild fights over a contested dragon.

The best endgame in ESO that I have seen is definately the AvA. You can choose what you wanna do pretty much at any time with a massive map to do it.

If I remember correctly, DAOC didn't have a gear chase either. You PVPed to get your realm rank which got you more stuff to play with (abilities). Most of the gear that I know of was all crafted so there wasn't even a PVP gear chase either. I know Trials of Atlantis introduced artifacts (which not many people liked and was an absolute chore to get). Also the did introduce better crafted gear in one of the updates or expansions past ToA, but I can't remember when. Also on release the games max level was 50 and today 12 years later it's still 50.

This article is exactly how I feel. I STILL have a hard time playing these MMOs with keeping the whole end-game idea in my head. I enjoy playing the content before end game. I enjoy playing it with multiple characters so I can experience it in different ways.

EQ was perfect for me in that respect. 

Now, in all the latest MMOs, I no longer have that sense of having fun playing through content. Now, I feel pressure to raise one character to the end so that I can play on the end-game treadmill with everyone else.

In GW2 for instance, my leisurely play style means that I've had to skip a TON of content so that I can play with everyone in WvW. Even before I stopped playing, anyone I played with was rush rush rush to WvW. My two level 80s each has around 41% exploration and that's mostly the low level content.

I joined the family on Saturday for that SORC thing and every thing we did I had never been in the area for before. Except for the area with that spider race. That's one area I happened to have spent a little time exploring.

That just really made me realize how little of GW2 I've actually had a chance to take my time and explore because... WvW or lvl bajillion Fractals or something or other that is end-game.

Same thing happened in WoW of course.

I'm hoping with ESO I can experience more of the content before I feel pressured to leave it all behind for AvA.

I agree with the article.  I have not been able to get into an MMO since SWG (Pre-NG).   WoW, Rift, GW2, its not about exploring or enjoying the game its about racing to that magical end game so that you can then start "playing" the game.   

I tried to play GW2 but really it feels too much like a train track, go here kill these things, now your high enough level you can go here and kill these things.  Wait your not high enough to go to this area so go back.  

SWG was fun because I could login and go exploring, sometimes that didn't end well because we ran mobs that killed us.  There was never a restriction to an area though due to unlocking a gate, rock, port, whatever or the players level.  

I just tried to play WOW and Rift again last  month and hell even with having leveled characters I still can't join any groups because I don't have the precise build needed for raiding.  

DAOC had a gear chase, at least at the beginning.  Gear had a quality percentage, and some other stat that repairing the gear reduced, eventually wearing that piece of gear out.

GW2 exploration is an achievement chase, which to me seems like Endgame, though many parts can be done at lower levels.

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Please don't feel pressured to join folks in the Endgame.  Yes it is magical and sugar coated, with unicorns and chocolate chip cookies...but its not all that.  It's just where the group activities almost always end up.

Oh wait, group activities are where the fun people are often at.  I sorta feel your pain.

TBH the rush for "end game" and "raid gear grind" was more instigated by the guild(s) I was in then anything else in my experience. The few MMO's I played that I wasn't in a guild (UO,EQ/EQ2, and some smaller MMO's), I never felt rushed or the need to get the best gear etc...  Don't get me wrong I am not saying that  is the case here I am merely expounding on my experience in prior guilds.

A MMO is what you make of it and the people you play with... Mainly the people you play with.