GSB charts for those interested

I dont know if this will work or not but I thought I'd post the charts from the Xanadu parser for those who might be interested in what their DPS / HPS looked like on the last fight with the Duke.

Ah buggar.. anyone know how to upload a .png file so it can be displayed?

Sorry about that here they are.

To start off that was a great first run. Bent did a knock out job of leading and everyone did a great job of listening. I never saw tempers go up over the mutiple failed attempts before we got the boss down. All in all it was a great run and I look forward to more (hopefully tonight.) We could still work on a few things: DPS and starting quicker both at the start of the raid and after a wipe. For DPS take a good look at the numbers on Cordite's Post but also remember this fight took a lot of movement and specific people had to do things that prohibited high dps. That being said all out dps should be at a minimum of around 600 on any fight. 600 is not hard to get, mages get it in their sleep, melee have to work a little harder. Check you gear: make sure you have the hit cap first and for most over other stats. (226 I think someone said) Also, and I am not telling anyone how to play their class it is only a suggestion, if you think you are going to be running the raid a lot and know what your role will most often be, spend you plaques on that type of gear. It really doesn't take that long to build up two sets, dps and healing, dps and tank. I run 1 T2 a night and have managed to put together 2 decent sets. I primarly tank so i sepnt my first plaques on tank gear and had almost half a set of dps gear off bosses, all my plaques go to dps gear now. My group usually has room to bring 1 or 2 more along on t2 runs, everynight at 8 est, usually the daily. We can bring any class along that needs it so ust whisper me in game. Even if you are not at the hit cap for t2 we can bring you along. I would say to be really effective at the raid level you should be in all t2 gear though a few t1 pieces wouldn't be a game changer. Again great job by EVERYONE, we will get better and gear will get better we just need to do it as often as possible. And if you aren't 100% geared make the effort to do more t2's until you are, even if you have to sit out of a couple raids to get the gear.

I might just take you up on that Ironbars - I'm still having problems with t1 dungeons and gearing for t2 would definitely be helpful.

I am a bit confused as this sounds more like a hard core approach to raiding. To do dungeons in Rift are we going to need to take this approach? Also it is my personal opinion that I do not like my raid stats listed on the guild forum. Not making an issue rather seeking some clarification as I have been reading on forums about those wanting or not wanting dps meters for raids. I would like to know are we going to be using them and will they be required? As to gear I must admit I have not paid much attention to it however I was of the opinion that Rift was not a gear driven game. That participation in dungeons was not dependent on your gear stats as in other games.

Elsimer, any time just send me a tell when you are on. Mistese, I am sorry if my post came off wrong. I wasn't trying to say who was doing a good, better, or best job. I thought everyone did very well and I am not the person with any authority to say who should be going on raids and who should not. I always have hated gear checks. That being said, to do this level of content successfully gear IS important. Most of the bosses will not be beatable unless most of the group is maximizing dps. When game designers put enrage timers or some sort of DPS check on bosses it does unfortunetly make gear important As a tank DPS meters don't bother me much, I will always be on the lower end. When i play dps I don't mind them much because it does let me know if I am playing my character to its fullest. I love the fact that this guild is laid back and not stressed about raids it makes raids enjoyable and not like work. On the other hand I do want to complete the raids so there is a certain line we have to follow.

Here is my opinion on the matter, consider it or not: I've always been a hardcore gamer, in everything I play I wish to get to the end content and work to obtain the best gear I can as well as hone my skills to push that dps chart. Gaiscioch is a guild that allows its members to play how they wish. Whether that be casual, weekend warrior, hardcore, etc. That said I personally don't feel that raid dungeons are for casual players. Rift is not an exception in the fact that it does require your gear to be at a certain level to complete certain dungeons. If this was not the case then there would be nothing to work towards, no rewards for your progress.

I am not against it as I too love to raid and am glad to see that there is this factor added into the game. To me it seems that they have added gear factors in with a nice balance to make it challenging to both a hard core player as well as a casual player. I too have been a hard core gamer however I came to the point I did not want to have to raid so much the game became a job raiding 6 days a week 5 plus hours a night. A good point about this guild and why I joined is it does allow its members to play as they wish. Thank you Ironbars for the information about the timers and need for the DPS. I am now close to 50 and need to do my research about the end game content which I have not done so far, as I have been deciding how much time I want to give to the game. Ironbar your post was most informative, thank you so much for the time you put into it. Eldris you also make an excellent point on dungeons requiring certain gear had not thought of it in that light. So wanted to thank you both for your responses they were both very helpful.

I'll throw in a few cents as a somewhat outside observer - someone who wasn't there (nor do I have a 50 even - yet). But I've raided before in other games and really, the experience is similar from one game to another. These raids are essentially all about the math. As much as we can say "yeah, we're different, we're nicer" (and that's true, IMHO), you can't get around the hard requirement of raids needing an overall DPS of X and healing of Y to kill the bosses. Just like you wouldn't expect a level 1 character to kill the mobs in Stillmoor, you can't expect a new level 50 to walk into Greenscale and kill a boss - it's just not gonna happen. So the fact of the matter is people need to gear up through the endgame dungeon, T1, T2 process to get to the point where going into Greenscale isn't an exercise in frustration. That said, you can get there by being jerks and by being exclusionary, or you can get there by being supportive and by helping your guildmates get there. And I think that's what is happening here. I saw the DPS charts above as showing what went on, and letting people know how they did. I personally run DPS meters when I'm in a dungeon, because I want to improve my performance, to squeeze what I can out of my character. And the only way to do that (for me) is to look at where I've been, look at the spell rotation I'm using, compare that to other people playing the same class and spec, and see what the differences are. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, maybe there's a spell I think is worthwhile to use which isn't, maybe there's a bit of gear I could get to make me better. DPS meters and the like can be used to beat people over the head or can be used to exclude and/or judge people. They provide a useful measurement. But you can't just blindly look at DPS meters either, since each class has a different DPS expectation, and each class brings something different to the table. So they're a tool which can be useful if used wisely. And I think the use here is not only appropriate, but useful. So thumbs up, and go get em tonight, guys!

I'm late to comment on this but it's better late than never. ;0 First and foremost, I congratulate every one of you guys and gals who participated last night in our first ever Tuatha Alliance Greenscale's Blight raid. We were not the best geared group to ever attemp GSB nor was the raid setup ideal, but we triumphed over Duke Letareus nonetheless. It is a testament to your skill as players and ability to adjust under fire that we accomplished something like this without having the most ideal conditions. Secondly, there are aspects of Rift that are less gear dependant than prior MMOS. However, raid dungeons are not one of them. The first two bosses of Greenscale's Blight are straight up DPS checks. No amount of skill will help you if you cannot meet those requirements unfortunately. To a lesser extent, expert dungeons also require certain levels of gear besides the well known Hit/Focus/Toughness caps. There is always some flexibiilty of course and our success with Duke Letareus proves that point, but you can only go so far with subpar gear in a raid dungeon setting. That being said, this guild is about inclusiveness and the freedom to choose your playstyle. There is no expectation from myself or anybody else that you must push yourself to something that you do not want to do. However, we are in the process of doing progression raids. We are effectively pushing the envelope somewhat, on what is possible with the gear and experience available to us. At this point in time, our margin of error is very small. Because of this, I am forced to be more selective in who can participate. This is not only about gear, it also means there will be criteria based on certain roles needed for the raid. As we move from progression to 'farm' status, the margin of error becomes larger and we can become more inclusive. Everyone who wants to come will get their shot, it just might take longer in some cases. I ask for patience in this regard. Back to the subject of DPS, gear, and overall raid improvement. Ironbars is dead on about many of his observations. We need to start quicker next time and keep down time to a minimum. However, we are still quite new to this as a whole (I know alot of us have prior raiding experience) so these things get better with time. As we continue, I will start pushing us a little faster each time. These are minor issues and all of you guys (and gals) were excellent in your focus last night. As far as DPS is concerned, Ironbars is correct in pointing out that various people had various roles, so determining 'acceptable' DPS levels is very difficult. We killed Letareus, so obviously our DPS was good enough. I don't want anyone who particpated to be overly concerned with your numbers, not everybody's primary role was to DPS to maximum effectiveness. There is always room for improvement though. Rest assured, I have a few tweaks in mind for our next friendly social encounter with Mr. Duke Letareus. If anyone saw something or have commentary about the fight, you can always send me a tell in game. I'm always available for questions, comments, etc. In the meantime, we all will be continuing our attempts to further improve our gear. That is a neverending process and I wish all of us luck and success in doing so. Every little stat increase helps in a raid setting. However, this should never be a chore to you. We are a casual guild and while some of us are a little less casual than the rest, we still need to have fun doing what we do. :) I apologize for this wall of text. Again if people have questions about the raid or questions in general then I am avaiable whenever I'm online. Congratulations again to everyone, it was awesome. :)

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to go (assuming that there would have been room for me if I had wanted to go) but looking at this thread brought a concern up for me personally. I am currently playing a warrior, and all my roles are dedicated to tank because if I wanted to DPS I would've rolled... well, anything but a warrior. As a semi-casual player, I don't play enough to go for a set of gear for dps and another for tanking but I'm dedicated enough to build up my gear as a tank to what I think are good levels and getting better as I go from running t1 to t2 and eventually to t3. However, in a raid there are a total of 20 slots but I'm not sure I see a reason for more than 2 tanks (a main tank and an off-tank) since with more than that you start trading aggro and confusing the healers as well as potentially turning the mobs. Does that mean that ultimately since I'm never going to be a better-geared tank than a hardcore player that I am doomed as a tank and should either reroll or stop accumulating tank gear in favor of DPS gear? I guess the sum of my question is what place (if any) does a tank have in a raid that needs to be fairly optimal yet already has two tanks?

This is a valid concern and you can substitute the word 'Tank' with 'Healer' or 'Melee DPS' or 'Circus Clown'. Ok, maybe not the last one but you get my point. In general, there will be 2 Main Tank types and perhaps 1 or 2 hybrid types who can DPS and in a pinch, do some minimal tanking. These roles are not exclusive to Warriors however and Clerics and Rogues can fulfill these roles too. Role flexibility is a huge asset in a raid because of the changing demands of the various boss fights. It is a challenge to juggle multiple roles and multiple sets of armor. But the more things you can do for a raid, the greater the likelihood that you'll get in sooner. If you enjoy being a tank and that is what you want to do then you should continue to do that. Eventually, as we expand to multiple iterations of our raid group, we will need more and more tanks. As I stated before, everyone will get their chance but it just might take longer. In that regard, there's not much I can do about it unfortunately.

Elsimer, I hear you brother. I started as a tank and leveled as a tank and wanted nothing to do with dps...until last week. Our group decided to switch roles up a bit to add a new flavor and we also started having room to bring guilies into t2 that were not geared enough or just geared enough. I quickly researched a few roles on the forum, knew I wouldn't want to play a Beast Master, and found a good riftblade/champ/para. Copied the 5 macros, put on the little gear i had found in dungeons and my dps was actually very good considering. I have never used macros in a game and thought of them as cheating, but trying to play with all these new lvl 50 skills and never using them as i leveled I needed some help. My dps on trash in t2's is 1k-1.5k and single target 500-700, considering the gear and not knowing the toon it wasn't bad. Point being if you don't try, you won't know, and you might actually enjoy it. Warriors are GREAT dps, more than rogues right now IMO, maybe not with next patch. I still love tanking and want to do it in raids. But I will adapt and slide over a bit if someone else wants to tank a bit.

...wishing I was 50 and all up in the mix.

hey Ironbars, if you could share your build and macros I'd be grateful. I've tried doing a DPS build and aside from contributing a few plat to the trainer on new skills I didn't get much accomplished. I think on the dummy and in t1 trash I was topping out around 300-400dps and constantly running out of energy. I know DW just doesn't cut it currently, so I'm going to have to have a 2-hander (I have one, and have an order in the Marketplace for Fleshreaper ) but I don't have the plaques or the money to move to more dps armor (focusing on crit and such I'm assuming). I'm willing to learn though.

My parses were slightly different from Cordites but the general order was nearly identical. Numbers just different a bit. Supposedly Greenscale needs more hit than the rest of his lair. Supposedly, everything up to him needs ~150. Also, while the general rift forums are hard to navigate at times, there are useful threads for just about every class that describes the highest DPS builds and macros if you want to min/max. The single most neglected item I have seen so far among raiders are runes. Runes are HUGE bonuses. Make sure to get all your gear runed. Zavrin, my cleric, has runecrafting and a number of blue Hit and Focus runes. Seigmund, a Dragons tank, has epic Hit ones. Look us up if you need them! :)

Sorry guys, I didn't post this to belittle anyone. It's just not me, and Gaiscioch has never been that sort of place/guild since I joined them. (I raided with some fairly hardcore dungeoneers from other games that demanded things.. gear/stats/classes..etc which just completely turns me off. I play to enjoy 'the game' now. These parsers just give me a measuring tool to see how I can improve my character.) I can totally understand peoples frustration with getting T1/T2 dungeon runs in and getting plaques for better gear. I dont believe anyone who was in the raid is embarrased by these numbers. If they are, they shouldn't be..we killed Duke Letereaus after only 5-6 tries. Everyone had a particular role to play for a successful 'downing' of Duke Latereaus and they know what role they had..so based on that its just a way for people to see how that played out for them. **There are alot of other numbers and critical moments/saves (some of which cannot be captured in a parser) that are not going to show up on your basic DPS/HPS charts. These are just as important if not more so. I only posted the 2 basic stats..as they are usually the first items to get looked at.

» Edited on: 2011-05-02 20:04:47

Cord, everyone that knows even a little about you knows that you're not like that at all. You have always gone out of your way to help others in this guild and there's not a malicious bone in you as far as I'm concerned. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the Duke Letareus fight in Greenscale's Blight, there are alot of moving parts to the encounter. Because of that, alot of situations arise where various raid members are not exclusively beating down Letareus. That is why there are such discrepancies in DPS in the raid. Also, some of us were assigned the role of support in the raid. Buffs/Debuffs do not register with the player who issues them but they are integral to the success of a raid. And I'm not just saying that because everybody and their pet outdpsed me. At least I beat out Dwooid. Neener neener Dwooid. ;0

I was surprised to see I had 77 in heals....wait a warrior that heals!!! What Bentmer says is absolutely correct. There was so much going on that any parser probably could not account for everything. @Cord Thanks for posting the parser, I find that it is useful information that can only benefit players.