Oof... T_T
Last Edited on: 12/26/2013 at 09:47 AM
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Oof... T_T
Yikes.
8 million, so that's like 3 million from each legacy player and 40k from each other person. Easy!
well, I was going to help with at least 300K minimum. I can probably push another 50K. Just want to make sure I have a 100K on hand for money's I need to start with end game gear. I'm actually slowly going through L48 with the bard.
The question is... is a small FC house ok with everyone?
I'll honestly take anything I can get at this point... I don't have much Gil, though. :/
Well...
Fifth-class Plot | Fourth-class Plot | Third-class Plot | Second-class Plot | First-class Plot
20,000,000 21,250,000 22,500,000 23,750,000 25,000,000 (small)
75,000,000 79,687,500 84,375,000 89,062,500 93,750,000 (med)
250,000,000 265,625,000 281,250,000 296,875,000 312,500,000 (large)
Balmung / Excalibur / Hyperion / Ragnarok / Sargatanas
(from patch notes)
I was just gonna come post that... 20 million... yikes!
Well, I'm still willing to hand over 400k and I know Marrra has that as well but seeing those figures, I am wondering how fast the prices will come down even a few days afterwards?
I just checked the notes and saw the Devaluation and that didn't help my sullen mood at present. Housing was the biggest bit I was looking forward to and well, blah, oh well.. need to find something to be eager for beyond that since we just resubbed :P
If people don't buy I bet they readjust the prices for Legacy servers. Otherwise we'll just be a little patient and see what we can afford. I'm enjoying the game and the rest will come in time, but that's just my 2 cents.
My instinct is to wait til the market drops. I know everyone is keen, but you would kick youself if we bought early and then prices reduced dramatically. I had calculated our max was around 3-4 million at a push.
How would everyone feel about waiting out the first week and watching the market?
I'm good for waiting. The patch notes had it at 14% reduction every 6 hours and they estimated just under half the initial price after 90 days. But I would say Twilah's right that if Legacy Servers don't buy as fast, or are uneven, they'd have to reevaluate the algorithms. I mean, the annoyance I had was you can't expect every Legacy Server to have the same money as well as a guild on that server with the same number as another to have the same amount of gil.
I reckon after a month, it'd definitely start adjusting it if was that out of whack.
I am up for waiting however long it takes as I'd prefer not spending more than we have to.
I have a feeling there will be a community backlash against the high prices. Other people will be just as disappointed as we are. Watching the SE forums will be interesting.
plus the fc has to hit rank 6 before you can buy anyhow. I'm still betting prices will be adjusted because loads of people are really upset.
ya lets watch the market. no need to rush after all they said that there's more ways to get gil. so we might as well Gil farm and wait for prices to drop
Definitely ok with waiting...those prices seem very unreasonable.
I have to wonder how much influence the rampant RMT had in determining the price brackets for each server.
Hope treasure hunts award a couple hundred thousand gil per run, at the least (boo@treasure hunt lockouts!) >.>
While I can donate 250,000 to the landgrab fund that still would not get us where we would need to be to buy the land with current funding.
The alternatives seems to be a recruitment and funding drive, or waiting until funding is there from the people we have now.
I would suggest waiting until we can fund, though I wouldn't object to other folks going out there and recruiting.
---
Let me know where to send the funds if we decide to concentrate them. Wish they'd just add something like PLEX, funding would be easy then :)
I'm fine with waiting too, especially since we can't afford to buy right away.
The thing that gets me, though, is that as mentioned above, prices will get no lower than around 50%
of the initial price. And wasn't the lowest lot priced at 20 million? Meaning 10 million would be the *minimum*
you'd pay for a lot? If that's true we'd still have a lot of saving to do!
As for RMT, Chris, in the patch notes, it explicitly says that RMT money should not be used to purchase
lots, and if so, could lead to seizure.... though I wonder how the heck they know that. Seems like a silly statement.
We should have been selling Titan runs when they were hot.
After a few bad random instance groups I occasionally think of buying one of those...
They can likely still sell, see a lot of folks without a relic weapon for the class they are currently playing, and only see the sellers closer to American prime time.
I'm okay with waiting. It isn't going to ruin my game to wait a little longer for something cool. Rather get something we'll be happy with and not feel like we kicked ourselves the wrong way by moving too fast.
Wouldn't it be hilarious if NO one buys a plot for the first week that you can? Though I know some larger crews will jump just to be first. Even so that would be really interesting.
As for rank 6, we've been piling up points so long we shold be like rank 10 by now. ;) We've been rank 5 since the first week or so.
In a way I kinda like the idea, because it means that most short-term guilds wont be able to buy a house and then leave an empty shell sitting around on a piece of property someone else wants.
Guilds who get these houses are much more likely to keep them populated and have the means to decorate them well.
It's one thing to have high prices, quite another to have high prices ONLY on Legacy servers. I don't agree with their decision to use housing as the sole money sink because it penalizes folks like us: casuals playing on the same server as the elite from 1.0. (IMO money sinks should be cosmetics and convenience items ONLY.)
From the Patch notes:
I have around 150k that I can donate at the moment, but compared to what everything costs, it sure doesn't seem like much. As much as I'm looking forward to housing, I agree with us waiting a bit to see if the prices drop. I would hate to see us all spending all our money for a piece of land and then not have anything else left to spend on the house and furnishings, only to find out that if we had waited, it would have been quite a bit cheaper.
Glad to see everyone is in agreement. Wow it would suck to be on the JP legacy servers - minimum cost there is 40 million!
As for selling Titan runs, that goes against my gaming ethics! Llyren, we can organise a time to take you through Titan with our raid group if you still need, just send me a mail in game. Best time is around 5 - 8 pacific on days other than weds/fri.
On the plus side, it looks like we have a clear winner for the city we want our house in. Yay Gridania!
I agree with the decision. Let's wait a week and see what happens.
I think you misunderstood me, Chuck.
I wasn't suggesting buying gil to acquire our FC house (please, nobody do that! :P ).
I was trying to make the point that basing the pricing models for each server based on a percentage of total server gil is ridiculous, at best, when considering how successful RMT has been in this game.
The 1.0/early 2.0 crafters and relic-run sellers who were smart/lucky enough to take advantage of all the RMT, and whom were not (effectively) targeted by SE (yet), have skewed that data tremendously due to their ill-gained profits.
And if that wasn't bad enough, we get slapped with a substantial "Legacy Tax" on top of the already flawed design...because "All Legacy players are filthy rich, LOOOOL!"
Even with RMT out of the equation, the logic is terrible:
"Yoshi-P's Heroes," a 250-member, crafting-and-24-hour-uptime farming FC tour-de-force, has accrued $500mil between them (for housing), through legit means. Total server gil is $1bil.
Therefore, we believe a small housing plot price of $100mil to be fair for their server, because all FCs are just like them...oh wait, we forgot the Legacy tax - let's make that $500mil."
wat...
It would've made more sense to me if the smallest plot on all servers would've started their devaluation auction at $1mil, with medium starting at $20mil, and the largest plots at $100mil.
That way, even the smallest FCs can enjoy this major content feature that their subscription has helped fund, within a reasonable time frame (i.e. before 2018), while still retaining a long-term goal of upgrading to a larger/fancier plot (if they so choose).
This was very disappointing news to me, on top of some of the other questionable decisions in the patch.
Not disappointed enough to unsub, but man...way to drop the ball SE.
I'm hoping that perhaps we just don't have the full/accurate story yet.
Maybe there were in fact currency typos, or conversion/translation errors...(though the rage on the JP forums suggests the figures are similar to ours, and therefore...accurate).
Perhaps the alchemists in Ul'dah finally succeeded in turning sand into gil, and that's why the prices are inflated!
Or maybe gil beetles have taken over every zone in Eorzea in 2.1, and that's the lore behind why we're working together with the Beast Tribes in the new dailies - in which case:
Jokes aside - if the presented information in their patch notes is 100% on point, I hope the resounding disappointment in the forums is enough to make SE see reason on this topic (doubtful, but I want to believe!).
Off to final exams x_X
I am hoping that the new ways to generate cash make a difference. However, I remain extremely skeptical. I think we can probably manage to scrape together 10 million in a month, perhaps. But that would be about our limit.
Hopefully the huge backlash against house prices evident on the forums atm makes a difference, and SE rethink it soon.
Holy chocobo's that's expensive.....
Well I"ll still contibute what I can but I doubt my measly contributions wil even put a dent in that lol. Hopefully servers will be up later tonight so I can log in and see what I got. I'm not against holding off purchasing land. If the fourms are any indication I be we are goingto see a price adjustment sooner rather than later.
I hope no one buys gold. In fact, if you did buy gold DON'T contribute to the FC house at all.
I speak from experience. In LOTRO one guildie bought gold to contribute to the guild house, and sent it to the officer collecting funds. That officer got perma-banned for receiving RMT gold and all of the gold the guild had raised for the guild house was lost permanently too. Our guild was broke and homeless for quite a while after that, and --worse-- our friend couldn't play with us any more.
I don't understand why prices are different on each server. If people played the original FF, did they bring their Gil with them to this new game? So this is Sonys version of a money sink for legacy servers? if so, that's a really dumb way to punish your loyal base.
The difference, Twilah, is that FFXIV was closed to be remade and rereleased. Those who got to Legacy status before it did get closed (didn't play at that point so I don't know what caused Legacy), are then able to bring those toons onto Legacy servers when it was released.
Yeah Twilah - some people did not quit 1.0 and amassed a fortune. SE allowed them to bring 10% of those funds to the new 2.0 game. BUT they also got to keep crafting mats and crafts they had levelled, which gave them an advantage at release.
It is a myth, however, that all legacy players are rich. I personally only have 400k, because I have real life stuff to attend to, and spent my money on raiding repairs and raid food mostly. In fact, the only reason I made what I did was converting philosophy tomes into high level crafting mats.
The real issue here is RMT, plain and simple. SE have calculated the available cash on each server and lumped them into groups. Those with the most cash have been allocated the highest house prices, that being the JP legacy servers. 40 million minimum. The US legacys come next at minimum 20 million. And so the prices lessen by economy size on the non-legacy servers to the lowest 5th band.
The thing SE did not take into account was that the wealth is held by a small % of either hardcore gamer4life types, guilds who sold Titan runs at crazy prices, or by people who are, or who have bought RMT. Which means those of us with lives and integrity (eg not buying RMT) have been shafted well and truly.
The ridiculous irony in all this, is that RMT thrived BECAUSE SE did not take the appropriate action swiftly enough, so it got out of control. They are now trying to downsize the economies, and as a result, screwing their players in an effort to fix a problem that was largely caused by their apathy and failure to react in a timely manner to the influx of gold sellers and farmers from release.
That is of course an over simplified explanation, but roughly my summary of the issue here. There will be some who earned their millions legitimately, but a lot of their market place wares were probably bought but RMTers and so it goes on....
There was one glimmer of hope on the JP "add-on" live letter:
For new users playing on Legacy servers, there were questions about how they would be able to purchase land as it's much more expensive, so moving forward we will be making adjustments to the lower limits. The prices listed in the patch notes are the high prices, and there have been comments that no one will buy them, but again, we will look at conditions and look into reducing the lower limits. We'll be keeping a close on eye on how everyone is making gil and on the economic conditions for each World.
*@Jay: Legacy refers to those who held an active sub during a specified date period during 1.0 - basically a "thankyou" from SE for our loyalty when 1.0 was failing hardcore but we continued to sub*
Thank you for explaining. I have not done much research into this game and its history, just played on a whim at launch and find it growing on me.
I think it's all going to boil down to what happens to the lots on our server. If most of them sit unsold month after
month, then SE will probably look into adjusting the prices.
To tell the truth, I don't know why the auction prices stop falling when they hit 50% of the original - if the lots don't sell
at that price there's no real reason they couldn't go down more.
I feel pretty passionately that they boffed this one -- different pricing per server is just wrong, maybe even illegal in US (can my internet provider throttle my bandwidth more than the next guy that pays exactly the same, for the exact same service?). At minimum they should fall to the same minimum price on all servers.
The explanation that seems most telling is that they just didn't have the server capacity for housing for everyone, so priced it out of range. This is pretty lame, IMO, from a software architecture point of view. Housing "instances" are just bytes in a database somewhere. You need to run them on a server when someone wants to enter them, sure, but every other game managed to spin them up on demand -- or a worst, put you in a queue.
Worry not so much now :)
Yoshi has responded on the SE forum concerning this and it is actually a really good read. I'll paste the main bit you all want to know though:
Legacy World Price Adjustments
Due to the prodigious amount of gil in circulation in legacy Worlds, we regret that current housing prices may be prohibitive to the following players:
Upon considering the feedback we have received since the release of the patch notes, we have decided to make the following adjustments:
- Those new to the game who started on legacy Worlds
- Those returning to a legacy World after taking an extended break
- Those on a legacy World who have been unable to save gil
- Land prices will start at the figures indicated in the patch notes
- From January 2014, devaluation will be adjusted every two weeks
- After three months, final land prices will match those of World Group 3
* World Group 3 (third listed in the patch notes)Although this takes place over the course of three months, land prices in legacy Worlds will eventually fall to match those of World Group 3. In the event that pricing changes are made to this group, the same will be applied to legacy Worlds.
Bahamut / Behemoth / Cactuar / Carbuncle / Chocobo / Diabolos / Fenrir / Garuda / Gilgamesh / Ifrit / Leviathan / Mandragora / Midgardsormr / Odin / Ramuh / Shiva / Siren / Tiamat / Titan / Tonberry / Ultros
By adjusting devaluation at set intervals rather than in one go, we hope to prevent a sudden rash of purchases.
The introduction of housing will help to unify the perceived value of gil in each individual World. Furthermore, it has presented an opportunity for us to consider the lifting of restrictions on transfers between between legacy and non-legacy Worlds.
---
World Group 3 is:
(Title columns one cell to the left when pasted)
| Fifth-class Plot | Fourth-class Plot | Third-class Plot | Second-class Plot | First-class Plot | |
| Small | 8,000,000 | 8,500,000 | 9,000,000 | 9,800,000 | 10,000,000 |
| Medium | 30,000,000 | 31,875,000 | 33,750,000 | 35,625,000 | 37,500,000 |
| Large | 100,000,000 | 106,250,000 | 112,500,000 | 118,750,000 | 125,000,000 |
So after 3 months, the prices of Small Plots will be 8 mil or 10 mil if you go for a 1st Class.
That to me, is much of what we all wanted.
Jay, hopefully the Dutch auction aspect of pricing will also apply. At month 3 on World Group 3 worlds, prices for unsold lots should be 1/2 of the table you show above. Otherwise this change is a bit... trivial.
*looks for Shire pricing*
i just want a house where I can fish and cook.
seriously, if they don't give it some functionality then it's a money drain. I hope to see more info on what the houses will do for our Free Company and also personal housing.
Otherwise yay, we're moving on up like the Jeffersons!
I'm not surprised, this is exactly what I was talking about in my previous comments on the housing subject. I've launched too many housing xpacs in too many games, to not know the song and dance by heart.
In this case, however, Yoshi and his team royally screwed up by releasing guild housing before personal housing. They had to have known that everyone would automatically be in the mindset of personal housing and unintentionally confusing guild with personal.
In any game with housing, Guild housing is always going to be more difficult to obtain than personal housing. But SE set up everyone to believe that it was going to be much easier to obtain in FFXIV with their promos and lack of detailed information on costs and availability, etc. Then they slap on massively increased pricing for Legacy servers to add injury to insult, which is actually a surprise to me, I didn't expect them to take that risk, then try to shift the blame onto Legacy players for being "too rich". o.O
So yea, those who can't afford early adoption will have to wait, they want the rate of plot purchases gated. That's why they implemented a devaluation system, its something that NCSoft met success with for AION. :-/
Chris, no I wasn't suggesting buying cash using RMT. Maybe I worded my statement poorly.
What I was suggesting was that SE said explicitly that if you used RMT to get the funds to buy a house,
the house would be subject to seizure. So I was wondering if this was some plot (house ... plot.. get it?)
to let people who have used RMT purchase housing, so SE could confiscate the lots... therefore removing
some RMT cash from the economy. But then I started wondering... if they know who has purchased money
using RMT, then why don't they just go ahead and confiscate the money NOW?
So I was sort of thinking out loud, and I can see how it wouldn't make a lot of sense to anyone but me.
But as far as housing goes, I'm sure that someday the FC will have one. And to tell the truth, I don't care a
whole lot if it's big, medium, or small. I'm sure we'll buy whatever we can afford!
Charlatan,
maybe they don't know who has bought RMT without a lot of manual investigation and once people start spewing huge amounts of Gil they will then look into the sources for those players.
You might Bo onto something there. Yoshi seems pretty brilliant so I have to believe there is a method and reason behind his actions.
Sekk: I keep seeing that argument thrown around other forums too, but I feel it is insulting to the percentage of the player base who are in agreement that the dev team came up with unfair figures for FC housing (besides being a straw man fallacy). I won't pretend to speak for everyone, but I certainly did not confuse guild housing with personal housing. Nor have I confused the price of the smallest plot with that of the largest (another popular straw man on this topic). I fully comprehend and appreciate the differences between the expected amount of effort required to obtain FC housing, versus that of personal housing. And that being said, I still stand by my opinion that their FC price brackets as presented, are unreasonable at best (as well as the Legacy tax being cruel, and unnecessary).
I'm fine with it being a substantial investment. However, their prices are just beyond stupid to me; I would consider our FC to be average both in size, and in the sense of how often we play every week; we have members who have been saving, and willing to contribute to the purchase of an FC house, since early access. And yet we can't even come close to paying for half of a plot for another 3-6 months...and that's assuming we go hard out with gil farming everyday, as per the silly rationale provided in the recent "Surprise, baby-Live Letter," on top of asking for an even greater contribution from those already willing to part with much of their gil (some of which have already offered over half of their earnings). It just seems very excessive and not well thought out.
More than anything it's starting to reek of the old FFXI dev tactics, wherein their efforts to rid the game of RMT & bots ended up punishing legit players more than anything. If their server infrastructure is really so stressed that they were worried about the plots in the housing server cluster being completely bought up (which makes little sense, as Shmi has already pointed out), then I would rather they would've just delayed its inclusion until such a time as they've installed and configured the necessary hardware to handle the load - not present us with exorbitant prices, and on top of that, further punish our members who were kind enough to roll on Excalibur with the few of us who were legacy players (that part annoys me more than anything, because you guys are awesome <3).
Chuck: I get you now, and ya I would not be surprised at this point. At least much of the rest of the patch is proving decent fun (we missed you during Garuda-E shenanigans!).
Twilah: Turbine did do a decent job with guild housing, huh? I really enjoyed that whole process with my old guild there - from purchasing our empty home, to building it up over the years.
I never said it was just or fair, I just said that's the way they wanted it to be. It is what it is. Disappointing, sure. I am, too, and not just about the housing.
On a related note:
Housing Price Adjustments (Dec .26)
Balmung?Excalibur?Hyperion?Ragnarok?Sargatanas
* Adjustments to pricing will apply to all plot sizes.
Aegis?Durandal?Gungnir?Masamune?Ridill
~BTW, can the size of the original video size be reduced so that the browser window horizontal scroll comes back into normalcy? I'm on a 1680 monitor and its still barely half of the video width.
~BTW, can the size of the original video size be reduced so that the browser window horizontal scroll comes back into normalcy? I'm on a 1680 monitor and its still barely half of the video width.
Done!
