Monthly fee = 672 hours..

My mind has never been able to grasped how anyone can justify having any  issue with 15dollars a month for ones hobby..

1;;  skip one single lunch a month with the Gf at mc'ds = gain 672 anytime hours of entertainment per month.

2;; go mow a lawn 20 mins work once a month   = gain 672 anytime hours of entertainment per month

3;; work for MIN wage 2 hours a MONTH = gain 672 anytime hours of entertainment per month.

4;; The cost of 1 good 12pack of beer ( or 18pack of dirty water beer )  to gain =  672 hours of....

when I was poor,no job, and 16 years old I could pay for my monthly game fee without even thinking.. without hardly blinking.. No I will never grasp how people complain. 

HAHA - I like that.  It even helps me justify it some.  I don't like paying after purchase but I don't wine about it either.  If it is a great game I will pay to play it as long as it brings entertainment to my life.

The way I look at it is most people spend upwards of 90 bucks a month for cable. I will see more game time than TV time and all the things I like to watch on TV are on Netflix or Hulu so I don't need to pay 90 bucks to watch it. Or I look at how much my Ex-Wife used to spend at a bar in a single night. I could subscribe for 6 months for the same price. 

I think the hardship comes when it comes to families. When you have a Mom, Dad, 3 kiddoes all playing thats not 15 bucks anymore. Thats 75 per month. Being a single player is one thing being a family is another.

This is why we like to keep something for everyone available. A free to play and a pay to play. It's their choice which they can afford and justify.

I have no issues paying a monthly fee, except for the obligation I somehow feel that I must play as many of those 672 hours I payed for unless I am just throwing my money away.   My wife on the other hand, doesn't seem to justify the expense, it always seems to bother her that I have to pay 15 a month, however I had a hard time justifying it as my only hobby expense when I also play table top wargames and spend excessive amounts of money on that.    Generally though, she hasn't had an issue with me paying 15 a month in the past, just to let her know when it gets withdrawn since she manages the check book and what not.   

This time around, however, I am paying for two accounts, so that is now 30 a month.   It only becomes an issue really when you are on a tight budget.  That being said...I plan to pay for 6 months at a time to reduce the cost, unless they allow me to pay for a year at a time, then I might just pay for two accounts at a year and worry about extra payments a year down the road.   I also tend to have expensive art supplies I tend to have to buy too due to school so that seems to bother her as well.  Like you said..its only 15 a month, one or two less meals a week, one less trip to the hobby store this month for my other hobby, or 3 extra hours of work this month at my minimum wage job..and yes 3 not two because after uncle sam steals his share, that 7.25 an hour is only like 6.50 or less, so 3 hours will cover one month of play.  

Now if I can only not feel so obligated or bothered by throwing away lots of those hours I payed for each month.  

To be totally honest, the 15$ a month for me will save me money. That and unfortunately for me (I'd like her to play online too) my wife's idea of a good time is sitting next to me while I am playing knitting up a storm. And my boys are still on the wii.

My wife and I have actually decided to cancel our cable this month as we have found that most of what we watch is available online. With that extra $120 in the bank my ESO Bill is paid! I just wish there were more hours in the day! Ha. 

I've never had an issue with subbing for games either. It's my hobby, and when I was a single mum with a young child it was also my sanity - a way to socialise after he was in bed on the weekends whilst all my friends were out partying (not to mention a lot cheaper than going out partying, so doable on a low budget). Now that I'm married again and my boy is 13... we have 3 of us that game... so potentially 3 subscriptions. The cost of a take out coffee in Perth is anywhere between $3-5... when our budget gets tight I just start taking a travel mug of coffee in the morning on my way to work, and put up with instant at work - sacrificing my awesome take out coffee pays for our subs hehe

Yep, there are many different ways to justify $15.00 (US) a month subscription fee for something you want and are happy with! The comparison with cable TV is a good one. Another I like is going out to a movie or dinner. One dinner out for one person easily equals a whole month of game time anytime you want. The list can go on and on.

Point well made Roninhood.

Thank you!

Well, the math is a little flawed here. While, technically, you can say $15 = 672 hours of entertainment, it's not exactly true. With a fulltime job or schooling and a normal sleep schedule that would be more like 40 hours a week you get to play or 160 a month on weekdays and 128 hours if alls you did was play on the weekend but maintained your normal sleep schedule which is more like 288 hours total if you did NOTHING but play after work, sleep or eat, if you sacrifice sleep to eat. Which isn't realistic. 

People complain because there is a still a stigma to invest money in the hobby we love and share. I'm from Argentina, with my partner, and we live together. People look at us very weird that we buy original games or even dare to pay a monthly fee in u$s, but that very same people spend even more than us in going out to bars, eating at fancy places or even traveling! Some of them even openly say it's a waste of money and time compared to getting wasted and getting STDs, lol!

 When I was in college (only total nerds had personal computers) at Western Michigan University, I had to choose between eating dinner and buying a pair of mittens.  I chose the mittens.

I understand that everyone cannot pay $15/month.  However, I could not have paid for the original game either, I had barely enough to pay for school.

My thought is, if you are willing and able to purchase a game for $60-$70, you certainly have the means to pay the subscription fee, it's just a matter of priorities.  I think that those who are complaining about the subscription fee are doing so because they don't want to pay, not that they can't.

I also think many of them are trolling.  It never ceases to amaze me how many people actually respond to a troll's taunts, as if he's posting to engage in some sort of logical discourse.

Total cost for this game this year would still be less than what I would invest in books to read if I was not on the quest to reread the fantasy and science fiction I decided to keep in my extensive library.  ::chuckles::  My hubby has a Nook and even with getting some good 2 dollar books in the mix he has averaged around 20 bucks a month already.  It always comes down to what we want to spend our money on.  =)

Now this year we are trying not to spend too much on anything because we made the choice to take a trip and upgrade kitchen appliances last year.  If we tighten the belt we can have this all paid off this year before interest gets added.  Again that was our choice and the trip was worth it.  Getting to hang out with the younger stepson and his wife around their birthdays and seeing the area they live in was worth far more than the cost we had to cough up.  

i'll probably do a 6 month subscription.  More up front, but less over time. 

Ezsme, I did my undergrad at WMU!

Small world.

What I truly find funny about the whole P2P and F2P setups is that F2P people actually believe they are spending less money on a game then people in a sub. (In most cases.)  Yes if they go back and look at all the purchases they have made in the F2P store, it equals out to $100 a month in some cases.  That is the whole trick to the F2P setup, you never really realize how much you are actually paying when buying all the store goodies. 

Ezsme, some of us don't have steady jobs. I'm a freelancer and it depends on how many customers I get is the amount of money I can make, so I'm rather shy about getting subscriptions fee instead of shelling out 60 or 50 as a one time purchase.

I had a very interesting chat today with someone about ESO, he complained about the monthly fee, we chatted and I told him that I stopped going to the rpg clubs and play in my house instead because I had a monthly fee (which is roughly the same as 15 u$s a month) and he scoffed saying "that's not a lot of money". Go Figure! :p

While it's true that in the grand scheme of things, $15 isn't a whole lot of money to pay for something, you have to admit that it's quite easy for a bunch of pay-x-dollars-monthly to add up to an overwhelming amount of money.

People have a finite amount of money and they have to choose to spend it in the way they want - and some people obviously choose to not spend it on paying $15/month for games. It doesn't make them right or you wrong, it's just the choice they make.

That said, I don't think the monthly fee is what will make ESO sink or swim... but that's another discussion!

If I told you how much I spent on GW2's 'free' game, you'd kick me in the behind. If told you I didn't even spend it to get a Legendary weapon, you would question my sanity - or already have. I'm VERY cool with $15 a month. It should be dramatically cheaper over the long run for me.

I'd invest in a game i enjoy, ESO just isn't for me, to put it nicely.

If someone really wants to invest in a game then give some plasma, that's $15 right there! :-)

Well with f2p games I for one will say you can play many of them for free and never pay a dime.  However, if you are enjoying the game, feel it is good, then why not invest in their company so they can make more good things for the game that you can enjoy.  I personally follow this idea when it comes to free to play games.  Also with free to play I actually feel like the characters are mine because I can come and go to enjoy playing my characters when I want and don't feel so obligated when I don,t get to play because of life.   Also when I invest money into a f2p game I get something in game for my money usually, but when you pay a monthly fee you are paying for access and still have to earn things in the game.   That is the issue because for a pay to play game they aren't your characters because if you stop playing you can't sill enjoy those characters when you feel like it.  They are basically your characters on a lease because you pay to even access the game.  For me the argument isn't f2p or subscription, it's more about accessibility because with a subscription, if life gets to busy where I can't get time to play, I am still out of my money for those days, weeks, or month i can not play.  If it's prolonged sure I can cancel and start the subscription back up, but it means I have to still pay just to access anything, even all my hard earned work.   I have played both both types and I give money to good games that hold my interest and I have fun playing, and yes sometimes more than one months worth if it's f2p.  

 That being said, eso only saw f2p as having a paywall, and many do have paywalls but not all of them.  They could have gone to other means without creating a paywall to play, it is their choice, I just wish subscriptions for these games were cheaper and more flexible is all.  I know they give everyone eight characters but why not a ten dollar a month option for say one or two characters, and then the normal 15 a month for eight.  It would allow more options for those who might have a tight budget.  And you can't say those who can afford the game can afford it, what if someone gifted it to them, hoping they would try it, not realizing that their budget might not have too for and extra expense.  As some have said they could be in college, unable to afford some extra luxuries.

$15 a month isn't a lot but if you are living from paycheck to paycheck it can be the difference between going hungry 2 days a week or actually being able to eat.  Everything must be placed in a category - and everything must be put into perspective.  Students might have a good computer to do their school work on along with an internet connection but that doesn't mean they can afford an extra $15 a month on a luxury.

When I was a student - oh gawd - that was a long time ago - I could only manage the movies about once a month and that didn't include soda and popcorn - it was just a movie.

When I first got divorced - I packed up and moved to a new city and lived in a roach invested apartment until a new friend said that her mother was renting out a room and I would be the perfect room mate for her as well  as saving several hundred dollars a month.  I went from eating top ramen noodles to having actual food and even going out occasionally to a local bar (but I didn't have to buy more than one drink usually - the rest were bought for me - or given to me by the bartender).  It took me a few years to re-establish myself and even buy a PC and get an internet connection.

All things have a time and a place.  We just need to accept that.  When it is the right time and the right place - then it will happen.

MMO's are cheaper than my golf habit was....by about a mile.

"All things have a time and a place.  We just need to accept that.  When it is the right time and the right place - then it will happen."

I like that Morigana!  It's a different viewpoint than mine, but I like it. :)

For me, I liken it to a lesson I learned from my ancient martial art instructor (when I told him I could not afford the time required to attend class).  He brought out a modest sized fish tank and then some buckets.  One was filled with stones, one with sand, and one with water.  He said your time is precious, and you need to choose wisely how you fill it.  This fish tank only will hold 3 large stones.  He asked what are the 3 most important things to you this year?   I replied, "family/work/school".  As he placed 3 large stones into the tank, he said these large stones represent the your family time, work time, and school time.  Then he started placing handfuls of gravel into the tank.  He said these smaller stones can be arranged around work/school/family.  He continued to fill the tank with the smaller stones until no more could be placed inside.  He said the smaller stones represent other things that you can work around your work/school/family.   He continued this lesson using sand, and finally water.   It was interesting and amazing to see how how much can be filled into your fish tank.  If something is important enough to you, regardless of your circumstance,  you will re-arrange the stones/rocks/sand/water in your life to make room.  

For some people, $15 can be a significant amount of one's monthly budget.  However, if "its the right time and place", that person can put that monthly fee first into their fishtank, and surround it with the pebbles, sand, and water.

We have learned well grasshopper.  Let us go forth and play ESO. 

Syphon brings up a really great point.

From what I have seen, the reason behind the costs for sub-fees is all related to greed.  There is this prevailing idea that wealth is scarce and because of that, businesses will try to get every single dime they can possibly get, as quickly as they can get it, because it could fall apart at any time.

A great example of that is the huge debate that is raging across the web about the exclusive imperial character available only if you pay.

At the same time, the reason there are sub fees that are definitely higher than they should be is because ultimately, we the consumers allow it.  No one wants to give up their comfort or their enjoyment of something in order for things to get better all around, because it would mean doing without.  The only real voice we have, is our bank account.  It's the same reason so many games are rushed out the door with the company planning on patching after launch - we allow it because ultimately, we want to play.

I guess that is human nature.  Ever notice how most people never get involved in a cause until something happens directly to them or a family member and then suddenly they are super pro-active about eliminating whatever it was?

I spent more money on Guild Wars 2's "Buy once, play for free" business model than I would have spent on twenty five subscription to an MMO.

TWENTY FIVE YEARS SUBSCRIPTION!!!

Give me a $15 a month subscription fee any day of the week.  I think I'm going to stay away from item shop games all together.

While I agree with most and disagree with some (violently) of the responses. I would have to say that I to think that $15 is very little to pay for potentially days of entertainment.

When I was in the service I was given a class on family budgeting, I remember this class mostly for the fact the it was clearly stated that everyone should budget some portion of their income for entertainment. While the amount does not have to be a large portion it must still be a portion. The reason, statistics showed that people that did not budget for entertainment would still spend money for it. That money was usually take from the food portion of the budget. True or not, I believe it is. Given that my experiences show that it is true just might be. So I for one will be prepared to spend the money, well at least $15 of it.

For a little perspective for me; I played 40K table-top games for years. I averaged 1 army per year at about $400 each. This was so much that I made an agreement with my wife that if I quit smoking I could, without question, spend that money on miniatures. Paying to play ESO for the first year $270 (collector's and stuff) after that $180. And playing an MMO gives me many time the hours of play that the table-top games did.

Lastly, I will pay the $15/month to see that there is continuing development and maintenance of the game. If I later decide that the game is not the game I want, then I stop paying them to develop it (CCP-EvE) and I walk away.

Snazz - exactly.  

GaryC - I have heard that fish tank lesson done just using a glass - and it is so very correct.

And all games are done for greed - P2P or F2P - they are there to make money one way or another.  If they didn't make money they would not be developed.  The business model on f2P is to get at least the average sub game fee every month - and the only difference is that some people will pay below the average and some people will pay more than the average.  It only benefits the ones paying below the average - the game developers are still making money - or the game ceases to exist.  Not one developer is doing it out of the kindness of their heart because they love us.

Also - for anyone thinking F2P is the way to go and that ESO is gouging us with the Imperial Edition consider what a F2P game would do...

Playing as an Imperial would be 1000 gems - Imperial Horse - another 800 gems - vanity pets stuffed in locked chests that you usually have to buy keys to open yet they are super rare drops- or they are sold in packs of 3 for 500 gems.  Extra character slots - more gems.... the list goes on and on for the things that F2P games charge you for yet we whine and moan when a subscription game charges a fee for them even though they provide so much more such as the vanity pets and play as any race in in faction just for pre-ordering... yet we cry. As a sub based game we expect everything given to us even though the so called F2P games gouge us at every little turn for bank space, bag space, and new outfits yet we cheer for them - I mean they are Free - aren't they?

Let's not forget the F2P games also had collector's editions at launch - that also cost more than normal yet no one is screaming "foul" about that.  

Im not going to discount there are people out there for which $15 a month is no small amount, but if you're already a gamer then yes it's a pretty small amount. My problem is that my gaming time comes in spurts. Some months I may be able to play 4 hours a day and others Im lucky to do that over several weeks. Subscriptions make me feel like a chump when Im paying for something Im not using.

The problem with the subscription model will probably be in the future when they need to go free to play.  Then they will scramble to chuck things into a cash shop without good planning. 

It's a good game, but I don't see anything that I expect to sustain a subscriber population for years to come.

To completely hijack the topic. :)

How do I get one of those fancy smancy signatures on the forums. :)

On topic though I don't care paying a sub for a game I enjoy and that I feel the money is being put to good use. This world revolves around commerce. And this to me is just another form of commerce. The developers have families to feed just like everyone else. Why should they not get paid for what they do. Besides, I spend $15 for lunch sometimes. :)

Beloc

As long as I enjoy what I'm playing , $15 a month is well worth it.

@Beloc

Fancy Smancy Signature Generator

Any changes can take up to 24 hours to reflect due to the fact that all signature are generated ~1am pst

The irony is that most of the people who complain about paying a subscription fee, are the same people who complain about P2W/F2P models. They want their cake and to eat it too lol. I have never minded paying sub's b/c, I go into it with the understanding that I am paying the dev's to deliver bug fixes, balancing issues, and additional content at a reasonable pace. I do find issue when said dev's take an INORDINATE amount of time to deliver fixes and content.

The way MMO's have gone lately all those people who complain about a sub have to do with wait around a year after release and it will prob go F2P/P2W. 

To me it seems that instead of paying a psychologist/therapist to listen to them gripe, they think that the internet is a good substitution.

I'm an analyst for a living; I understood the benefit of the monthly subscription long ago as related to total entertainment dollars spent.

This said, it's not a mutually exclusive argument anymore; there are a number of well documented instances of F2P with microtrans being significant revenue generators for MMOs that otherwise would have folded (e.g., LOTRO saw a 500% increase in revenue for the first quarter after going F2P and offering microtrans).

Of course, not all games get the mix right (SW:TOR is a good example here), but by and large, it is a savvy move for an offering facing the choice of either going F2P or closing its doors.... even if they wind up having to close over time (i.e., Vanguard). Revenue in pocket is still revenue in pocket.

I know the "old school" (of which I am decidedly a member, albeit on the outer edges, far from within the majority view) generally dislikes the "corruption" of gaming by filthy lucre; that said, the normal progression of product maturation in this segment is known and options that sustain an offering, even if temporarily, are generally better than watching it wither and die.

The only thing I've paid for in GW2 is an extra character slot. Apart from buying the initial game, of course :)

I think the comment above about the transition to f2p is a good one. Given trends in the industry, I think we can expect ESO to go free to play at some point. The question is whether it will be in six months, a year, three years, or whatever. Maybe it won't happen, but the odds seem in its favor. So far, I've been less than happy with games that weren't f2p initially and tried to implement it afterward. I think The Secret World does it pretty well, but most of them I don't like.

That said, given the trends in the industry it seems likely that the devs of ESO have at least given some consideration to how microtransaction/f2p model might work with the game, and if/when that day comes, maybe they'll do a great job of implementing it.

In the meantime I'll pay the sub fee and not worry too much about how long they'll keep the sub model. Whether it is a relatively short or long period of time, I'm going to enjoy time in the game with the guild as things currently stand and if/when things change, I'll enjoy my time with the guild under the new system.