The Elder Scrolls Online Situation, Fears, Concerns - Please Read

Greetings Everyone,

Our old friend "the rumor mill" has started circulating about Gaiscioch leaving Elder Scrolls Online for ArcheAge. First and foremost I would like to put your mind at ease that, that is not the case. We will still be moving forward on Elder Scrolls Online. The ArcheAge Saighdear is an Unofficial Recreational division of the family for players who want to play to play together. It does not have events, leadership or participation or a marketplace. It is purely to keep members playing together who are no longer playing one of our chapter games. We also had people doing the same in Neverwinter and Final Fantasy XIV. 

As of right now Elder Scrolls Online is our primary focus along with keeping the Tribute to Roger "Oldroar" Rall going in Guild Wars 2. Now that said I will break down the Chapter cycle for you all so that there are no surprises and you know where our boundaries are. A while ago I made a nice post about What makes a Gaiscioch Chapter? Here are some highlights.

We have a simple scale for all new and old branches:

Couple Things To Remember:

1. We will only expand into a new game when necessary to survive.
2. We will only have 2 chapters open at a time maximum. For a new one to open, an old one needs to fall below 250 active players.

That said what would have to happen at this point for us to consider leaving ESO would be:

1. Active Elder Scrolls Online Participation would have to drop below 250
2. A Saighdear or Pioneer would have to pull in over 250 people with no website support, no promotions, no events and prove it would be worthy of becoming a seed.

To put your mind at ease I see no evidence that ESO is doing "That" bad. We've had our hardships but the decline has nearly stopped and we're starting to get more people in with our low level events.

We aren't a community that jumps from game to game because it's newest and coolest. We only jump when it's a means of survival. We can not do the things we are designed to do with less than 250 active players. We are an inclusive community built from the ground up to engage audiences and perform on the grand stage. As long as there are people to entertain we will remain in our chapters. Remember we've had 5 Chapters in 13 years. Most other communities have played or branched into dozens of games. We are specialized in our approach and do not take new chapters lightly. They must be necessary for our survival.

Additionally each new chapter requires about 300 hours of my time to get setup. I do not look forward to launching new chapters unless absolutely necessary. That's 300 hours of programming, db admin, complex data models, and data entry instead of leading events and being with people. That's not a small undertaking and I don't look forward to doing this every time a new shiny comes out. As long as we still have people to entertain we will remain where we are. Look at our past track record.

• Warhammer Online: Dropped below 250 and we closed
• RIFT: Dropped below 250 and we closed
• Guild Wars 2: Still over 400, still open.
• Elder Scrolls Online: Still over 400, still open.

Population dictates our fate. If you love Elder Scrolls Online then keep playing it and we'll keep holding events for ya. But if the day comes when we must consider other options to survive we will. We still have a long ways to go before anyone needs to be worried. I still have faith that ZeniMax will fix the glaring issues preventing our success and we will once again grow. Until then your support on the battlefield tuesday nights is tremendous to keeping us going. Each tuesday we are gaining 4-8 players as we help the newer players out in their campaign. We haven't had the same luck with any other event so If you can lend your Tuesday night to be a green shirt on the battlefield please do. It helps keep this branch alive and healthy.

Nice explanation Fog.  ESO, while it has it challenges, is still the best out there right now.  Certainly things will improve and change as time goes by, but I don't see any game out there that has been announced or that I am aware of that would meet our needs.  They all seem to lack one or more of the key items for our guild. 

I would encourage everyone that likes WvW, PvP, AvA or what ever you want to call it too come to ESO and give it a try. It is not a pushover, and you do need to work at your character in order to do well.  That, to me makes it a challenge worth putting some time into.  I don't like zergs, and zerg's do not really dominate in ESO.  Skill and tactics, for the most part are what makes the difference.  Number of players will always make a difference, just as it does in real life battles, but remember the Spartans!  The 300 held of thousands, and in game we have an advantage the Spartan's didn't .....if we die, we just respawn and give it another go!

Hope to see you all in whatever game you choose to play.

Caytlynne of Skye

V12 EP Sorceress  ESO

Kaytlin 80 Necro GW2

Thanks for the heads up Fog. I personally love ESO. I just wish my shift work would allow me more time to group up for the events. Whenever i can make it, i am there though.

To reply to Kaytlin, I totally agree with her. Pvp/Ava/WvW is such a lot of fun. I have a VR12 toon who gets in there and doesn't do too badly, but it is just as much fun on my other toons (even a lvl 12). Even dying is fun in ESO!

This is really encouraging, as I've been worried about the guild getting bored and giving up on the game. I'm not able to do much with the guild because of connection issues and an ancient computer that barely handles the game, and I've worried that when I'm finally in a position to correct those problems there won't be anyone still around to play with. I love running AvA and I feel that I can contribute there even if I am crashing or lagging out constantly, but I really don't dare try things like dungeons where losing one member can be the difference between success and failure. I enjoy running with the guild and it's nice to think that ya'll will still be around when I'm finally able to experience all of the content!

"I'm not able to do much with the guild because of connection issues and an ancient computer that barely handles the game"

ESO is a 32 bit program that uses disk caches to compensate for the RAM limitation, which is only a 2g limit for 32 bit programs.  I've heard that they supposedly use some other design technology, similar to SWTOR, to break that 2g RAM usage limit, but I have not seen any evidence of that.  SWTOR uses twin processes, ESO does not.  Its possible that they use a multi-core trick, which may be why Duo core CPU computers (like mine) have problems with it.  I don't know.

TL;DR: ESO is highly CPU and HDD intensive and Duo core computers and/or slow hard-drives will have bad performance.  Especially the older, slow hard drives.

Thanks for the clarification Fog!

Do most guildies who play ESO not use RC? There are always 3-4 times as many people in RC playing GW2 relative to ESO.

SOLO has proven to be a solo encouraged game. There isn't much that requires a group and there's a lot going on with audio cues. A lot of players have opted for full immersion. We still encourage raidcall use but understand why people choose not to while soloing.

iknow for myself I am still really enjoying eso and don't plan on jumping ship for a while.  and as soon as my summer season slows down and hunting come to an end I will repost my regular AvA event for those who wish like to run as a guild group out there

Despite my newness to the Gaiscioch community, and my lack of involvement with AvA and guild events notwithstanding, I am truly grateful for being a part of this guild and I'm enjoying the heck outta ESO, with no plans on leaving any time soon.

I have to carefully balance my playing time with family life, and even when I'm playing for extended periods I frequently have to be able to get up and attend to a request in the house, which makes it really tough to commit to large scale events. I'd rather not be involved in them than try and be unable to carry my own weight or give my full attention. 

I love the fact Gaiscioch represents something greater than simply a guild of avatars in one game. Kepe up the fantastic work!

I'm happily gaining more time as the summer garden/canning season winds down and the kids head off to school, and my writing schedule has eased up substantially. I'm working on leveling up my toon so I can play in the vet campaigns. :)

Glad to see there is no urgent plans to abandon this title. I being an explorer, am miles away from being done with ESO.

No plans to leave just yet. Going to see if we can help save the game first. Next week I'll be spending the week in office with ZeniMax to help give them some ideas and feedback to bring more of a community centric life to eso. Going to do everything in my power to see this game thrive.

That's cool that you're going out there, they really need expert input to help put a community into their game, it badly needs one.

Also tell them that you know of a siege warfare expert that needs a telecommuting 2nd job and that I'll come cheap.  ;)

Haven't played much the last couple weeks except checking in every day or so to get my hiring mails.  My highest char is still just 49, about to do the Molag Bal fight since quite a couple weeks ago.

What caused me to lose interest on continuing leveling was that ZOS kept raising the max VR level every other updates.  Normally MMOs would raise max level once every couple years, not once every couple months.  This really bugs me very much as a casual player.

I guess it is an easy way to give folks that are already at max level something to do for a bit, but it also reveals a lack of max level things to do in general.

One thing I would like to have in ESO is some instanced PvP, like war zones, battle fronts in other games, but many are against it I think.  Folks citing that instanced PvP will thin the population playing Cyrodill campaigns, but forget to consider having more ways to have fun in the game will grow the overall population and benefit population of all content types of the game.  Bigger pie so to speak.

Keeping my sub but I am spending a little time checking out WoW instanced PvP and trying to decide will I use WoW or SWTOR for my instanced PvP (or SPvP in GW2 jargon) fix.  I have played a bit of GW2 SPvP in the past but somehow it doesn't make me feel excited at all while playing.  Hopefully will play ESO more regularly soon.

I have to admit I love the game but was totally put out about not being able to do the Craglorn questing with out everyone being on the same phase. It is just a big pain in the hide end.  I can understand folks not getting the credit if they are not on the spot in the questing chain, but in the same token they should be able to help out the other in the group who are on it.  The grouping tool frankly is a waste of time.  I have been giving feedback since we were way back in the testing phase, it seems like some of the folks at Zenni are not getting it.  I am really hoping the feed back Fog gives them sinks in.

There's a lot I'm hoping I can be persuasive and convincing enough to encourage them to put a little effort into the systems I described. The trick is to suggest exciting ideas that get the developer minds turning and also keep them reading through the occasional humorous line. Cross your fingers that it works :)

Yea.

I'm still thinking on some AvA stuff to suggest.  I've been distracted this week, but I should be able to get my head back on and get some things I'd like to see implemented for AvA, written down.  Its nothing really crazy, just suggestions to change up the AP treadmill a little.  I was hoping the new RvR dungeon would have more chatter by now, but it seems to have just been a tease announcement @Quakecon?

That's still my biggest problem with this game:  ZOS takes too long to do anything. 

After being spoiled by F2P games for the last several years, players who pay subscriptions just do not have the patience to wait several months for updates, fixes and whatever, anymore.  There's also quite a bit of chatter that I see while playing other games, that indicate a strong belief that ESO will go F2P sometime next year, so a lot of players are waiting for that.

I'm curious as to how much of the development is not out-sourced and non-contract.  That's what brought Microsoft's dominating rise to a screeching halt, which should be a lesson learned for corporate developers, but a lot still go with it, because it helps bolster their shareholder report #'s.

Anyway, it is what it is.  >_>

Damm, someone hit me, No wait, close the door and toss the key away, I think I am going crazy, but Yes as a last ditch effort if they can not stop the bleed because that is what it is happening from the game, not just here but across the board folks are simply just leaving because of the lack on ZOS part, maybe F2P is the way to go. I have said it now time to go stick my head in a hole and hide.

P.S> Note to self to not look at website while cooking your breakfast catches on Fire, Darn

If they go total F2P - I shall be at an other location.  I love the game the way it is and they just need to keep doing updates.   I still see plenty of people in the world, at the crafting stations, and all over my travels.  The AvA in Pre-Vet is fun and they just need to get the VR AvA into the same state.  Heck, I still complain about the WvW in GW2 - to me zerging around the map isn't an adventure which is what I look for in my fights.  They have some issues, but nothing they can't overcome.

I would have to say my biggest complaint about how they are handling the game is the fact that they simply add a few features here and there instead of fixing some of the issues..  they need to understand that just because they put a layer of icing on the cake it wont make it better..  they need to fix the issues that are killing the game not add new stuff....  new stuff will be fun and distracting for a few weeks,  btu the the problems have been around for to long

So, two quick thoughts:

1. F2P will impact participation, but in my experience, this is a short term band-aid rather then a long term fix. F2P usually is a last ditch effort to save a failing title, and I truly believe there is more that can be done before switching business models.

2. Fog... i'm sure you have a solid list of topics to discuss with ZoS, and I hope that one of them is the economy. The Guild store/bid for a store idea is a huge concern in my opinion. I think there needs to be a universal "store" slash auction house., not because of the familiarity but rather to help keep the economy fluid and robust. It's current iteration does not drive the economy rather it stifles it.

Ive got 3 pages dealing with economy outlining several other games that started with the same style and migrated to a centralized market. This was a big topic in my document.

I still enjoy ESO and find it the most fun MMO out there currently.  I've been giving ArcheAge a shot for a little, but I'm not very impressed.  There are some good mechanics in it, but there are several features/mechanics/styles-of-play/etc. that I don't like nearly as much as ESO. I'll probably continue to investigate ArcheAge for a bit, but I don't see it replacing ESO for me at least.

Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable; procures success to the weak, and esteem to all.

George Washington

I am happy to be a part of the family in ESO, although I adventure mostly with my husband or solo. We make connections when we can and try to keep up with the news.   Part of this is the amount of time we have to play and when.  Is there some thought to doing some maps on east coast time?  How about AVA?  I am interested but except for the quest at level 10 I haven't been.  We are also slow adventures who enjoy the quests and other bits.  (Just hit VR2 with first toon.)  Not in a hurry, just enjoying the journey  and we hope that all are having  fun.  =) 

I am back to leveling sloooowwwly in ESO.  My highest is VR1, playing since launch on and off, might the slowest there is.

Molag Bal was actually kind of easy, just have to kite him around for a good 10 minutes or so.  I guess the fight has been nerfed too.